Steppers & Linear encoders

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17 years 5 months ago #223 by gtom
Just finished installing my mesa 5i20... Steppers run fine with Stepgen & Encoders for Feedback:

Question: Is there a way to run a Stepper in combination with the linear encoders like a servo motor? (closed loop)

At the moment i've installed the linear encoders to get position- feedback and to stop the machine if there is an error.
Think that there should be a possibility to run the steppers like servos...

regards, Thomas

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17 years 5 months ago #224 by BigJohnT
What driver are you using for your steppers? I'm in the process of hooking up my 5i20 to some Gecko 203v drives...

As for the steppers with encoders I'm not exactly sure but have seen discussion on this before.

These are some links to some info on feedback with steppers.

wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Steppers_With_Encoders

wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Com..._Devices_On_One_Axis

John

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17 years 5 months ago #225 by gtom
Replied by gtom on topic Re:Steppers & Linear encoders
Well, im using some of the "chinese" Stepper Drivers (8A Output), with Step/Dir and a German Interface-Card for Spindle/Coolant/Ref Switches...
I know more or less how closed loop Pid works but i do not know how to connect em to the StepGen provided by the mesa haldriver,

is there a example how to integrate the stepgen in the pid?

regards Thomas

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17 years 5 months ago #227 by BigJohnT
gtom wrote:

I know more or less how closed loop Pid works but i do not know how to connect em to the StepGen provided by the mesa haldriver,

is there a example how to integrate the stepgen in the pid?

regards Thomas


I don't know of any...

Just looking at my 5i20 configuration in the HAL configuration window I see that the stepgen only has two input pins enable and position-cmd. So I'm guessing you can't use any feedback directly on the stepgen. Maybe PCW or Seb might know a way.

John

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17 years 5 months ago #231 by alex_joni
gtom wrote:

is there a example how to integrate the stepgen in the pid?


Well, doing it in HAL is not that complicated.
The problem is with the results.
The idea is that steppers have a different torque/velocity curve than a regular servo.
If a servo gets behind the commanded position you simply increase the power so it catches up.
When a step motor gets behind commanded position it's usually because it doesn't have enough power. Increasing the command to it will only get it to lose more steps, and stall eventually (actually quite fast).
The only thing you could do is connect the position error (difference between commanded and feedback) to the adaptive-feed input to the motion controller. That way emc2 will slow down all axes if one motor starts to fall behind. In this case one can only hope the motor which started to fail will magically heal itself and catch up eventually.

It is (in theory) possible to drive a stepper like a servo, but you need a really high count encoder for that. At least 100 pulses / motor step. And you need to have a control (pc), drive, motor-encoder combination that can do things together. This only works if the PC control talks to the step driver and together they can decide on slowing down, increasing, etc.
And if you consider more than one axis, which all move synchronized, you see why it easily gets problematic.

I think the best way to make a stepper system work is to design it properly, so that it's never close to areas where it can stall or lose steps.
If you have encoders/linear encoders and you can watch if an motor stalls it's even better. IMO a motor will only stall if you had a collision, or something else which isn't part of a regular machine operation cycle.

Regards,
Alex

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17 years 5 months ago #235 by alex_joni
BigJohnT wrote:

Just looking at my 5i20 configuration in the HAL configuration window I see that the stepgen only has two input pins enable and position-cmd. So I'm guessing you can't use any feedback directly on the stepgen. Maybe PCW or Seb might know a way.


It works like this: motion -> pid -> stepgen, the feedback goes back to pid, not to stepgen.

Regards,
Alex

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