Zenford Zeigler Retrofit

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12 May 2018 12:54 #110598 by snoozer77
Hi All,

I have recently purchased 1985 Zenford Zeigler CNC milling machine with 24 tool carousel changer. This machine is an Australian built machine, fitted with an early ANCA 2000 controller, also Oz made.

The Anca controller is well and truly past its used by date, But im hoping to bring the machine back to life with Linuxcnc.

After talking to another ozzy who was also retrofitting a zenford machine (Thanks for the advise Russell), he has recommended using mesa hardware with the original servo's, drives etc.

I have been looking through allot of forums here for the last month or so, trying to get a grasp of the hardware, testing, homework etc, i will need to do before tackling this retofit.

Im a machinist with some electrical experience, but this will be the first time tackling a cnc retrofit like this. (i do have a small hobby cnc router running GRBL, steppers etc that i enjoy tinkering with)

I do have allot of electrical info about this machine. Elec drawings, Owners manual, spindle drive manual and a printout of the original controllers plc ladder type program.

Im looking to use the original brushed DC servo's and drives (all axis's and spindle), these include tacho feedback to drive and resolver feedback to control. Drive inputs are analogue +/- 10v, Relays are 24v.

looking for recommendations on mesa cards for my build.

Was looking at 5i24, 7i49, 7i44, 7i84

was also looking at 2 x 7i29's servo drives (in case of the originals failing in the future). Would they be compatable with the other components in the system? As i would initially like to get the machine running as basic as possible (no tool change, original drives), then add tool change, install new drives when i get a bit more experience and confidence.

Im able to post drawings and collect info as required.

Any info, suggestions or advise would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Matt
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15 May 2018 23:16 #110779 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Zenford Zeigler Retrofit
You would probably need to use a different firmware if you needed to change the drives in the future, but the config you describe has an entire spare 50-pin connector to which the pair of 7i29s could connect if you chose to go that way in the future.

With the existing hardware that you have I think your choice of Mesa cards seems sensible. (it is pretty much identical to what I have on my own lathe and milling machine).
The following user(s) said Thank You: snoozer77
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16 May 2018 03:53 - 16 May 2018 03:57 #110784 by snoozer77
Replied by snoozer77 on topic Zenford Zeigler Retrofit
Thanks Andy. I have all the mesa cards in my cart on the mesa store. Was hoping someone would see my post and say that they would work.

I pretty much based my selection on reading all the info i could about your lathe and mill.

Thanks again.
Last edit: 16 May 2018 03:57 by snoozer77.
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20 May 2018 12:36 #110924 by snoozer77
Replied by snoozer77 on topic Zenford Zeigler Retrofit
Hi Andy,

Just wondering if STMBL drives will become easier to get in the future? I see you have used them in the past. Would they be a bit beyond a relative novice to set up?
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20 May 2018 13:06 #110925 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Zenford Zeigler Retrofit

snoozer77 wrote: Just wondering if STMBL drives will become easier to get in the future? I see you have used them in the past. Would they be a bit beyond a relative novice to set up?


I didn't mention STMBL because your machine has DC servos and STMBL only works with three-phase motors (Of almost any type)

The intention seems to be that STMBL should be much easier to get hold of in the future, but at the moment one of the biggest components in the drive is end-of-line and unavailable so a redesign is under way.

For the moment I would suggest sticking with your existing motors and drives.
The following user(s) said Thank You: snoozer77
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29 May 2018 07:25 #111245 by snoozer77
Replied by snoozer77 on topic Zenford Zeigler Retrofit
Hi Andy,

Well after a bit of tinkering, it looks like at least 1 one of my servo drives is no good :( . Do you know if i would be able to use the 7i29 with the 5i24 7i49 combo. My original servos use tacho inputs for velocity mode on the drive. From what i can see, the 7i29 doesnt have that available, but i dont know much about this drive. Do you have any thoughts on this? not sure if i should just bite the bullet and get new motors and drives with encoders etc. I would love to keep the motors and resolvers, as i already have the hardware to run it.

Cheers

Matt
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29 May 2018 08:51 #111246 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Zenford Zeigler Retrofit
You should be able to use just about any DC servo drive which supports +/- 10V control.
Tacho feedback to the drive is optional, you can run 2 axes in velocity mode and 1 in torque mode if necessary.
(The 7i29 runs in torque mode, with all feedback loops in LinuxCNC)

I really like resolvers, so would try to keep them. But I might be unusual in that respect.

What is the voltage / current rating of the servo drives? If you are replacing one it does seem like it would be sensible to go for a replacement that you will be able to get more of further down the line. (The 7i29 would already have a spare channel, of course)
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29 May 2018 11:01 #111248 by snoozer77
Replied by snoozer77 on topic Zenford Zeigler Retrofit
Thanks for the reply.The current drives are ASR Servotron. 150v dc 10amp cont. They are a rack style with inbuilt PSU. There is this on ebay Aus,

www.ebay.com.au/itm/ASR-Servotron/172531...8:g:PLgAAOSw4A5YouNI

which is a 150v 15 amp unit. For $250, it would be great, but the condition is unknown, and i dont really need a $250 pile of old parts.

i agree about the resolvers, especially as i already have 5i24, 7i49 ( and others) combo.

Will do a bit more investigating over the next week or so and see what i can work out.

If you can recommend any drives 150v 10A drives, im happy to take a look.

cheers

Matt
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29 May 2018 11:18 #111249 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Zenford Zeigler Retrofit

snoozer77 wrote: If you can recommend any drives 150v 10A drives, im happy to take a look.


I have never used brushed servos, so don't have any first-hand experience.
pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_...ath=3&products_id=10
Might be an option.

I assume that the existing drives take 240V AC input? Either the Pico or the Mesa drive need a DC power source, which adds a bit of work.

You could cast your net a bit wider. Is this the drive?
www.ebay.com.au/itm/DF123-Baldor-A-S-R-A...a:g:r3AAAOSwK89Z26XK

Is there any indication what is wrong with the existing drive? They don't look super-complicated.
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29 May 2018 11:47 #111250 by snoozer77
Replied by snoozer77 on topic Zenford Zeigler Retrofit
The input to the drive power supply is 3 phase. I think it is 115v per phase. The drive PSU converts to 150v DC not sure on the amps (the one on ebay i linked is 100 amps!!). Not sure what is wrong with the drive. I found some paperwork from a previous owner, stating the drive is not repairable. That was from Baldor repair centre. Wish i had found that before i bought my mesa combo. thats what i get for getting to excited... haha
The Baldor drive you linked seems to be a 60v 12amp unit. Thats assuming the codes run the same as the 150-10-01 that i have.

I wanted to retain the motors power / speed, so i wanted to look for drives of similar specs. Am thinking to use the same DC power supply that i have, but remove the drives and patch in the new ones.

Looking at the ebay one i listed, it looks like there is a bar across the DC outputs to the drives. i was hoping to reconnect new drives up there.

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