HAAS VF1 retrofit

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25 Jul 2014 08:13 #49111 by sspeed33317
OK, well it is gong to be too costly to repair so time to retrofit.

This past weekend I put together a new computer for the cnc controller.
ASUS H61M-E
Intel i3-3220
2 Gb Ram
120 Gb Solid state
350W Power supply

Installed the 2.5.4 release.

I posted about the tool changer which needs the Z axis to move for tool change.
So I am going to have to come up with a routine and remap the m6

I already have 4 advanced motion servo amps and will reuse the HAAS 160 VDC power supply and motors.
But I will add a isolation transformer to make is safer...

So now I need to choose the I/O cards for analog servo amps.

From what I read , Mesa seems the way to go..
Now which cards should I use ?
I am going to need a lot of I/O for this machine.

Also, going to convert to run on single phase.. new VFD for a 7.5 hp motor.

Not going to rearrange the enclosure layout too much, transformer will go where the transformer went, the PC will go where the control boards went, I/O , servo amps, etc...... keeping it simple as possible...

So.. recommendations on the Mesa cards to use is next step... thanks

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25 Jul 2014 20:31 #49125 by JR1050
Replied by JR1050 on topic HAAS VF1 retrofit
I would get a wiring diagram for the machine and start counting I/o. I can't imagine it having any more 32 inputs and outputs. The hass tool changer is pretty simple.

As for hardware, price wise it is hard to beat a 5i25/7i77 combo, I/o can be added easy. You might want to consider spending g the time to reuse the haas operator panal, it will take a while to program, but having real buttons and knobs is real nice and safe....I use a 7i84( I think) for the panel. I have used both 5i20's and 5i23's with both encoder and resolver interfaces and they work well. I'm pretty sure haas uses encoders.

I/o can be easily handled with any of mesa's smart serial boards or opto 22 racks.
Be prepared to rethink how you approach programming and running your now retrofitted machine, the EMC works well, but it is different from a commercial control.Good luck!!
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25 Jul 2014 23:06 #49131 by sspeed33317
Replied by sspeed33317 on topic HAAS VF1 retrofit
Since I will have to remap the M6 to make the tool changer work
which version of LinuxCNC do I need to run. I installed 2.5.4 this weekend to get the PC running.

Luckily HAAS has a few maintenance manuals online to look at.
It is a pretty simple machine. Luckily...

I would love to reuse the factory pendant ,but I don't know how long it would take me to figure it out.
I was just going to reuse the buttons and spindle load meter and replace the screen with a LCD and then a panel mount keyboard.

For the VFD I can buy one that is made to run a 7.5 hp motor off single phase or would a 15hp VFD that is made for 3 phase but can
run off single be OK too? I'd like to run it off Modbus.

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26 Jul 2014 00:27 #49136 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic HAAS VF1 retrofit

JR1050 wrote: You might want to consider spending g the time to reuse the haas operator panal, it will take a while to program, but having real buttons and knobs is real nice and safe....I use a 7i84( I think) for the panel.


The 7i73 is meant specifically for panels, and does a good job. it supports key matrixes (and even keys that are not physically in a matrix can be wired that way). It also has handwheel counters and (I think) some analogue inputs for pots. Handy little card, fairly cheap, and all the panel wiring becomes a single CAT5 cable to the controller.

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26 Jul 2014 06:47 #49150 by sspeed33317
Replied by sspeed33317 on topic HAAS VF1 retrofit
I would be open to trying that... I dont know if the keypad on it is 100%
but new ones are available at about $300

At leas then I wouldnt have to worry about making a new panel.
Also industrial panel mount keyboards are expensive... gees......

If I can get the MESA boards here I could have a basic running machine in a few days.
Then worry about the other stuff as I go. And the VFD.

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26 Jul 2014 06:49 #49151 by sspeed33317
Replied by sspeed33317 on topic HAAS VF1 retrofit
OK two more questions...

Which brand VFD works best with Modbus for LInuxCNC ?? Or is it not a problem
to just as long as the drive is Modbus capable.

And....

Which version of LInuxCNC should I be using ?
I have to do the M6 remap for the tool changer. I have also thought of redesigning the toolchanger
so I dont have to move Z axis.

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26 Jul 2014 07:10 #49152 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic HAAS VF1 retrofit

sspeed33317 wrote: Which brand VFD works best with Modbus for LInuxCNC ?? Or is it not a problem
to just as long as the drive is Modbus capable.

Why the enthusiasm for Modbus? Initially I would suggest running the VFD from an analogue voltage and fwd-rev commands.
Modbus will give you more access to what the drive is doing and more "tweakability" but it is likely to be something of a project all of its own.

Which version of LInuxCNC should I be using ?
I have to do the M6 remap for the tool changer.

2.6. It is very close to release, and has a lot of fun new things (including remap).
Just follow the instructions at buildbot.linuxcnc.org to get it as a pre-built package.
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26 Jul 2014 07:49 #49153 by sspeed33317
Replied by sspeed33317 on topic HAAS VF1 retrofit
OK, i will try to work on getting 2.6 running

I figure modbus would be better to use because I need to
get the spindle to orient for tool change, maybe i dont need it..

the way I read in the HAAS manual, for orient

Spindle set at orient speed, as it triggers the orient pin it goes into coast mode
when the pin drops into the detent there is a switch that lets the control know it
dropped and also commands a stop signal to the VFD, so until that pin raises
back out no matter what the VFD will not move the spindle, giving a spindle lock fault

If i can do that without using Modbus i'm all for it :-)

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26 Jul 2014 08:07 #49154 by sspeed33317
Replied by sspeed33317 on topic HAAS VF1 retrofit
ok, just ordered the mesa boards..
might have to wait on ordering a VFD for a week or two.. rent is coming due :dry:

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26 Jul 2014 08:13 - 26 Jul 2014 08:14 #49155 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic HAAS VF1 retrofit

sspeed33317 wrote: OK, i will try to work on getting 2.6 running

It shouldn't be hard.

Spindle set at orient speed, as it triggers the orient pin it goes into coast mode
when the pin drops into the detent there is a switch that lets the control know it
dropped and also commands a stop signal to the VFD, so until that pin raises
back out no matter what the VFD will not move the spindle, giving a spindle lock fault
If i can do that without using Modbus i'm all for it :-)


You can do all that in HAL. I would probably write a custom comp (because I can, and it's fun) but I can actually see it being easy enough in ordinary HAL.

Consider, this basically comes down to the VFD command voltage either being (scaled) spindle speed request, or a small slow-speed rotate, or zero.

A "mux" can do that, and mux8 has 3 inputs.
www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/man/man9/mux8.9.html

If we say that sel0 is spindle-on, sel1 is orient, and sel2 is "pin engaged"

Then draw up a table.
Sel0 Sel1 Sel2 What we want
0    0    0         0 
0    0    1         0
0    1    0         small constant speed
0    1    1         0
1    0    0         spindle command
1    0    1         0
1    1    0         small constant speed
1    1    1         0, oh we so want zero then.

So,
setp mux8.0.in0 0
setp mux8.0.in1 0
setp mux8.0.in2 0.01
setp mux8.0.in3 0
# setp mux8.0.in4 0 this one is different
setp mux8.0.in5 0
setp mux8.0.in6 0.01
setp mux8.0.in7 0

net motion.spindle-speed-out mux8.0.in4

Does that make sense?
Last edit: 26 Jul 2014 08:14 by andypugh.

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