Does it's possible to Refit.
27 Aug 2021 15:39 #218916
by aleksamc
I added video of very similar cnc machine.
Original machine need to be refited.
Old program is lost with broken PC.
Possibly I can take job for refitting such machine and to earn some money. I got to study electrical schematic and found that it has:
- 8 servo drives (include 2 for spindles)
- 95 Digital inputs
- 99 Digital outputs.
Servodrives could be controled with analog signal (not step/dir).
PLC-module for input/output uses CANOpen.
Such machine has very interesting mechanics:
it can work on Top and Bottom sides simultaneously: to drill and to mill and it has horisontal drilling head also.
Can I connect linuxcnc to CAN bus (posibly with using some converters)? Does it's possible to use 7i74 board for this purpose is there any driver to connect it to CANbus?
If not, what hardware possibly could I use from MESA?
I suppose such configuration if CAN interface can't be used:
- 7i94 anything I/O Ethernet - 1pcs
- 7i71 - 2pcs (I think I will disable some outputs)
- 7i70 - 2pcs
- 7i77 - 2pcs
- 7i92 - 1pcs
But I hope that CAN interface is possible to use.
In this machine will be
- as I said - driling, milling from top and bottom sides:
- one axis has "hand" that could move border on more then dimension of the axis. I currently doesn't know how to make postprocessor and processing for this function.
- on top and botom sides there is drilling heads
- one horizontal head.
I think this job will be very hard and very interesting. How do you think, how much such job could cost?
Does it's possible to Refit. was created by aleksamc
I added video of very similar cnc machine.
Original machine need to be refited.
Old program is lost with broken PC.
Possibly I can take job for refitting such machine and to earn some money. I got to study electrical schematic and found that it has:
- 8 servo drives (include 2 for spindles)
- 95 Digital inputs
- 99 Digital outputs.
Servodrives could be controled with analog signal (not step/dir).
PLC-module for input/output uses CANOpen.
Such machine has very interesting mechanics:
it can work on Top and Bottom sides simultaneously: to drill and to mill and it has horisontal drilling head also.
Can I connect linuxcnc to CAN bus (posibly with using some converters)? Does it's possible to use 7i74 board for this purpose is there any driver to connect it to CANbus?
If not, what hardware possibly could I use from MESA?
I suppose such configuration if CAN interface can't be used:
- 7i94 anything I/O Ethernet - 1pcs
- 7i71 - 2pcs (I think I will disable some outputs)
- 7i70 - 2pcs
- 7i77 - 2pcs
- 7i92 - 1pcs
But I hope that CAN interface is possible to use.
In this machine will be
- as I said - driling, milling from top and bottom sides:
- one axis has "hand" that could move border on more then dimension of the axis. I currently doesn't know how to make postprocessor and processing for this function.
- on top and botom sides there is drilling heads
- one horizontal head.
I think this job will be very hard and very interesting. How do you think, how much such job could cost?
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27 Aug 2021 17:31 #218924
by Aciera
Replied by Aciera on topic Does it's possible to Refit.
Interesting project for sure.
This company is the only source that I know of that seems to support CAN bus for Linuxcnc but really I have not heard of anybody actually using this system nor if it will work with CANopen.
But you could maybe send them an email.
www.generalmechatronics.com/docs/LinuxCNC_Brochure.pdf
This company is the only source that I know of that seems to support CAN bus for Linuxcnc but really I have not heard of anybody actually using this system nor if it will work with CANopen.
But you could maybe send them an email.
www.generalmechatronics.com/docs/LinuxCNC_Brochure.pdf
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27 Aug 2021 18:29 - 27 Aug 2021 18:36 #218929
by aleksamc
Replied by aleksamc on topic Does it's possible to Refit.
I've seen that company and I ask them. But only after you remained me about them Aciera.
Also, now I look more precise into the project. There is a lot of valves Bosch Rexroth with Inputs/outputs. This devices has AS-interface.
So in this project I can change CAN interface with MESA board. But AS-interface I can't axchange.
So, If it possible to connect AS-interface to linuxcnc, it could be refited, otherwise - not.
But possibly AS-interface is connected to CNC through CAN, So I return back to CAN.
Also, now I look more precise into the project. There is a lot of valves Bosch Rexroth with Inputs/outputs. This devices has AS-interface.
So in this project I can change CAN interface with MESA board. But AS-interface I can't axchange.
So, If it possible to connect AS-interface to linuxcnc, it could be refited, otherwise - not.
But possibly AS-interface is connected to CNC through CAN, So I return back to CAN.
Last edit: 27 Aug 2021 18:36 by aleksamc.
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27 Aug 2021 18:35 #218931
by db1981
Replied by db1981 on topic Does it's possible to Refit.
you can get access to ASI and CAN Bus over ethercat.
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27 Aug 2021 22:00 #218940
by aleksamc
Replied by aleksamc on topic Does it's possible to Refit.
Thanks for that answer, db1981, I think that it's good idea. Can you explaine me more detailed about this?
I found topic from Grotius,
forum.linuxcnc.org/ethercat/35591-beckho...w-to-install?start=0
Where Ethercat is configgured from Ethernet board on PC. Possibly I can make such configuration but what will be next? How to connect wires and to make configuration for this? As I saw from Internet, ethercat has 4-wire, AS-i and CAN - only 2-wire.
I will not ask now about how to set drivers whatever you get tire to explaine))
I found topic from Grotius,
forum.linuxcnc.org/ethercat/35591-beckho...w-to-install?start=0
Where Ethercat is configgured from Ethernet board on PC. Possibly I can make such configuration but what will be next? How to connect wires and to make configuration for this? As I saw from Internet, ethercat has 4-wire, AS-i and CAN - only 2-wire.
I will not ask now about how to set drivers whatever you get tire to explaine))
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27 Aug 2021 23:27 #218946
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Does it's possible to Refit.
Just some advice:
Doing it for money = run away from it as far as you can!
Doing it as a learning project = oh yes !
-
Some thoughts:
That is a big and very, again VERY complicated machine, so taking on that beast as the first retrofit (or as a second or third.. ..) is never a good idea.
Personally, i would take it in a heartbeat, i like challenges and have the experience already. But i did turn down two smaller jobs lately, a Biesse and a Weeke, i have 2 shops now so having them closed is not an option although there is no work at all !
-
After all that, you can bet that we are here to help as much as we can if you end up taking it !
Doing it for money = run away from it as far as you can!
Doing it as a learning project = oh yes !
-
Some thoughts:
That is a big and very, again VERY complicated machine, so taking on that beast as the first retrofit (or as a second or third.. ..) is never a good idea.
Personally, i would take it in a heartbeat, i like challenges and have the experience already. But i did turn down two smaller jobs lately, a Biesse and a Weeke, i have 2 shops now so having them closed is not an option although there is no work at all !
-
After all that, you can bet that we are here to help as much as we can if you end up taking it !
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28 Aug 2021 08:24 #218965
by db1981
Replied by db1981 on topic Does it's possible to Refit.
Ethercat is an Field Bus System, inside this system you can attach CanBus Masters (EL6751) and ASI Interface Cards (EL6021). But for getting this running, you need an in deep knowledge of electronics / fieldbus systems / Servo Systems and C programming ....
"As I saw from Internet, ethercat has 4-wire, AS-i and CAN - only 2-wire" reading this, i think this job is a number to big or will take several years...
Doing this job for money, for the use in an industrial environment, including post processor development, modifying guis, customized c-components, and all the other stuff that is neccesary (documentation, safty concept, manual, etc...) without deeper calculation this will get an higher 5 digit € job.
"As I saw from Internet, ethercat has 4-wire, AS-i and CAN - only 2-wire" reading this, i think this job is a number to big or will take several years...
Doing this job for money, for the use in an industrial environment, including post processor development, modifying guis, customized c-components, and all the other stuff that is neccesary (documentation, safty concept, manual, etc...) without deeper calculation this will get an higher 5 digit € job.
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28 Aug 2021 08:29 #218967
by aleksamc
Replied by aleksamc on topic Does it's possible to Refit.
Tommylight, you are definatly right about that.
I have some experiance in refit. I maid in last year 2 cnc machines with 7i77 boards. And I must say that what you plan to build in 3 monthes will last in 6 or more. Always have some troubles. At last when almost everything was finished one drive broke in my last project. I've lost 3 mothes for this reason to repair it. But it was also experiance.
This project I want to make for experiance. But it would be very nice if it would be paid at least for the time that I will study it.
I have some experiance in refit. I maid in last year 2 cnc machines with 7i77 boards. And I must say that what you plan to build in 3 monthes will last in 6 or more. Always have some troubles. At last when almost everything was finished one drive broke in my last project. I've lost 3 mothes for this reason to repair it. But it was also experiance.
This project I want to make for experiance. But it would be very nice if it would be paid at least for the time that I will study it.
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28 Aug 2021 08:36 - 28 Aug 2021 12:19 #218969
by aleksamc
Replied by aleksamc on topic Does it's possible to Refit.
db1981 thanks for aproximate amount.
Unfortunatly in our country 4-digit number in $ (even not EUR) is maximum that it could be paid )))
But in the future could be more similar projects and such salary could be reached. Or it's possible to simplify such machine somehow.
Thanks for your references about bekchoff modules, I will study their manuals to more clearify comunications topic. I think if it's possible to comunicate with CAN and AS-i interfaces, it would be big step for linuxcnc as cnc system.
Unfortunatly in our country 4-digit number in $ (even not EUR) is maximum that it could be paid )))
But in the future could be more similar projects and such salary could be reached. Or it's possible to simplify such machine somehow.
Thanks for your references about bekchoff modules, I will study their manuals to more clearify comunications topic. I think if it's possible to comunicate with CAN and AS-i interfaces, it would be big step for linuxcnc as cnc system.
Last edit: 28 Aug 2021 12:19 by aleksamc.
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28 Aug 2021 10:55 #218981
by aleksamc
Replied by aleksamc on topic Does it's possible to Refit.
Does it's possible to use on one PC EtherCAT and MESA 7i92 (for ethernet). I mean if I have 2 LAN ports - to configure them for different purposes?
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