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12 Nov 2023 13:52 - 12 Nov 2023 13:53

XHC WH04B-4 Driver issues and improvements

Category: HAL

Hi All

I got my XHC-WH04B-4 working recently. I can control all axis and homing, got the MDI macros to set zero and spindle start.
I have a few things that I really need to improve and functions to get working. Hopefully this topic will provide useful development for others going forward.

I see 2 approaches to resolve the issues -
1. modifying HAL configurations
2. modifying the source code behind xhc-whb04b-6

Issues so far:
FEED OVERRIDE - MPG
On start up the pendant is not in Continuous or Step Mode - I note that feed override is changed when using the handwheel
Once homing is complete or Continuous or Step is selected then feed override cannot be affected by the hand wheel
I presume because unlike the 6 axis pendant this 4 axis  version does not have a button to select MPG mode, so we cannot return to MPG mode - which i have read is combined with MPG mode for the the feed and spindle override.

Regardless of the above, the operation I really want is simple - Once homed - Select LEAD position and have the hand wheel control feed override - Then I can safely work thorough machine runs using this as a way to quickly halt the machine, or slow feed through areas of programs.  

LEAD Position
The rotary position LEAD puts out a different code to the 6 AXIS VERSION - so I cannot select LEAD mode as far as the driver is concerned. This i think requires a change to the source code. I found the offending line in pendant .cc

Line 383 : Needs changing to 0x09 for the 4 axis version (is 0x1C for 6 axis version)

Continuous vs step mode jog.speed :
Continuous operation gives a jog speed far too slow. Step mode gives a step far to large at the higher settings 60% and 100%.
I used halmeter to verify the jog speed scale in the 2 modes and found :
selector Position             Jog.scale cont  Mode          Jog.scale - Step Mode
0.001                                         0.0008                            0.001
0.01                                              0.002                             0.01
0.1                                                 0.004                             0.1
1.0                                                 0.012                           1.0
60%                                               0.024                           5.0
100%                                              0.04                            10.0
Noting also that:    continuous mode - axis.n.jog-vel-mode = 0            In Step Mode         - axis.n.jog-vel-mode = 1

In Step its Ok from position 0.001 to 1.0, but step of 5.0 and 10.0 is crazy and will result in smashing tool into something at somepoint - Note removing the option for big step - B from  loadusr -W xhc-whb04b-6 -HsfB  Does not help the large steps remain active.

As the option B is ineffective , I'd be quite happy if the 60% and 100% settings just gave no output or capped it at 1.0 - so need a way to invoke this.

I see a few possibilities here between a hal solution or a source code change.

Regards my HAL file I have implemented a lowpass filter and also to scale the jog.counts - this improves the continuous mode speeds but then, of course,  undesirably scales the step mode distance. I figure I then need develop the HAL code to change the scale applied depending on the mode (cont or step) - first though is to use axis.n.jog-vel-mode with a mux to apply a different scale - but I haven't experimented yet.

But I also wonder why the driver reduces the jog speed scale so much in continuous mode? Perhaps a change to source code giving higher jog.scale in continuous mode is more elegant than complicating the HAL file. 

PENDANT LOCKS UP

Not sure how but a couple of times i have the pendant in a state where nothing responds - the usb is fine and the pendant shows activity but no response to hand wheel or buttons. possibly after applying MDI commands in axis then returning to manual mode. - needs further investigation.

Machine: MESA 7i76  + 5i95  - stepper motor axis mill and lathe in mm mode

My gut feel is some source code modification with an extra option for the 4 axis pendant would be great - then the lead mode issue could be fixed. Possibly a change to the cont mode jog.scale values - i'm sure they could be much greater as the machine simply stops when the pulse stop so its much safer scenario than large steps in step mode.

I have some degree of confidence in investigating and modifying the source code - but I have no idea how to go about compiling and implementing changes to xhc-whb04b-6. However I have a spare machine running a sim and i'm wilting to try - any pointers on where to get started are greatly appreciated. (I have some experience with developing software in windows, but I'm a linux newbie)

Otherwise if you think HAL offers a solution please feel free to suggest things. I may have missed a simple method to resolve some of this and happy to consider other ideas.

If your still reading at this point  - well done, thanks for taking the time.

Bally
11 Nov 2023 15:01

how to control the SPINDELMOTOR ISA 900 W 477009 with Linuxcnc

Category: General LinuxCNC Questions

Hello everyone, I own the SPINDELMOTOR ISA 900 W 477009 33245 ( www.isel.com/en/spindle-motor-isa-900.html ) along with its FREQUENCY CONVERTERS ( www.isel.com/en/frequency-converter.html ). I'm interested in controlling it using LinuxCNC. I possess two boards of a 5 Axis CNC Breakout Board with Optical Coupler for Stepper Motor Driver MACH3 ( www.aliexpress.com/item/32796933346.html ). My query is whether it is possible to control the spindle motor speed to achieve a precise number of revolutions and, if so, how can I achieve this? Thank you.
05 Nov 2023 14:30

Newbie need help, touch plate making.

Category: Basic Configuration

thanks but not help anythink, germany not good translate normal human language all go wrong, and peoples who use first time all life linux and linuxcnc and not has newer before read or write any code not understand code anythink, and i need only help, were i add example Ztouchplate all codes, i not has newer before use code,linux or liuxcnc. need know how make button, how button answer to bush and how do what g-code want doing. were all this code and parts need add, wery simple answer if know. button code need add to folder xxx. parallerport pin 15 need add to xxx file. xml code need add to xxx file or folder. ngc file need add this folder xxxxx. but any people not has answer to me were need add all file parts.
touch plate need only build button first, then hall meter test pin 15 working, my machine pin 15 working ok, whit hallmeter.
then build how answer to button move spindle to right place and do G-code 38.2 procedure. were this need add folderxxxx. and what other need add. wery simple answer if have linuxcnc user .
but i ask thats because i not has newer before make code, write code, add code to linuxcnc, used linuxcnc before newer and need know were i add all file parts.
i has try search thats last 2 month in google but not found any help, all have only other mach3 sites and videos, or expensive mesa card systems, i not have mesa card i not know what this doing and not newer can buy expensive mesa card, i use only paraller controller board, and first time all my life linux and linuxcnc software all have new and not newer has before all my life write any code, im not have computer guru pro im old 65 year men who build cnc machine my young son garage,help him build own garage woodworking shop. my machine have normal sterppermotor cnc size 1200mm x 1200 x 300. only woodworking hobby in garage. simple cheap chinese paraller port board 5 axis board and use 4 stepper motors nema 23 470oz. 4A, spindle have better than router have air cooled 800W ER16 0-30 000rpm. and use first time all my life linux. and want use linuxcnc because have FREE not need expensive licence. need only know how add touchplate working can set up tool height after change bit. thats is normal set up ewery cnc after change bit. basic job but linux have lot different than windows use, not understand linux and code anythink.hardware have easy simple, but this code system not have simple, need help were all code need add. what folders and what path need add button code i has copy to internet, G-code example i has copy, but were all need add.
02 Nov 2023 17:37

Mesa board for CNC lathe upgrade

Category: Driver Boards

So would I have any reason to expect better performance for threading operations with the Mesa FPGA board if the spindle synchronization servo is still being done by LinuxCNC? 

Yes. LinuxCNC is not the limiting factor, parallel port is.

  With my current setup (using the parallel port) threading messes up once every few passes (seems to get slightly out of phase with previous passes

Most probably parallel port exceeded the ability to count encoder pulses.
You can always try a slower feed rate till you find a reliable value.

Also, for closing the loop with linear encoders and steppers, I've read some people on this forum have had good success, but is it even worth trying for a setup (like mine) that has regular acme threaded lead screws with a fair bit of backlash?  That seems tricky for the feedback controller to handle.

Linear scales would help a lot, the machine will get to where it is supposed to despite backlash.
With simple steppers you can still use backlash compensation, same as with encoders attached to the motors, so not much of improvement, but with encoders it would alert if it skipped steps, and than can be used by LinuxCNC to stop the machine so you can check what went wrong.
02 Nov 2023 16:07

Mesa board for CNC lathe upgrade

Category: Driver Boards

So would I have any reason to expect better performance for threading operations with the Mesa FPGA board if the spindle synchronization servo is still being done by LinuxCNC?  Maybe it depends on whether it's the base thread or the servo thread that is limiting performance with my current setup.  With my current setup (using the parallel port) threading messes up once every few passes (seems to get slightly out of phase with previous passes: forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/45294-thre...zation-issues#236574).  I never was able to fully diagnose what's going wrong.  I guess it could also be that the software encoder counting is too close to the limits of its performance.  But I'm really hoping things will work better with the Mesa board.

Also, for closing the loop with linear encoders and steppers, I've read some people on this forum have had good success, but is it even worth trying for a setup (like mine) that has regular acme threaded lead screws with a fair bit of backlash?  That seems tricky for the feedback controller to handle.
01 Nov 2023 23:35 - 02 Nov 2023 00:05

Mesa board for CNC lathe upgrade

Category: Driver Boards

Yes, a 7I96S basically incorporates a breakout board so is intended
to connect directly to motor drives, limit switches etc. A 7I92T needs
an external breakout so a 7I92T could work with your existing parallel
port breakout.

All higher level motion control is done in LinuxCNC including all
spindle synchronized motion (threading, rigid tapping etc)
Any feedback/PID loops are also done in LinuxCNC.

The nominal 1 KHz servo thread rate is usually sufficient for this
kind of motion control. This is because the controlled device is usually
under velocity control and has a local velocity loop.

There are some threads here ( on the LinuxCNC forum ) that describe
using linear encoders with step/dir drives to increase the accuracy
and which were successful. Unfortunately these were a couple of years ago
and  I could not find them with a quick search.

EDIT: Here is a thread about using linear encoders with step/dir drives:

forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuratio...le-closed-loop-setup

 
01 Nov 2023 21:16

Mesa board for CNC lathe upgrade

Category: Driver Boards

Hi,
I've been pouring over a bunch of threads here on Mesa boards and I'm pretty sure that I want to upgrade my system to use one, but I'm still quite confused about the best one to choose and the overall process of getting it hooked up and any other hardware required.  I'm sure this info is already out there somewhere but I'm having a really hard time piecing it all together.

I have been running LinuxCNC on a dedicated desktop PC using a parallel port interface to control my CNC lathe.  I've had some issues with latency and timing, particularly with threading operations.  I'd like to upgrade my setup to use a Mesa board for (hopefully) better performance and also to get away from using the parallel port.  I think an ideal solution would be to use a Raspberry Pi with the Mesa board so that I don't need to tie up a full PC.  I've read about varying results of this approach on this forum.  Mesa makes the 7c81 board (seems to be out of stock currently) specifically to interface with the GPIO of the RPI or I could get one of the ethernet boards, but some users complain about timing issues with ethernet on the RPI.  An ethernet board also seems nice if I decide to use it with a PC instead of an RPI.  Which boards have people had success with when controlling with an RPI?

My current setup (using the PC with parallel ports) can control 3 open loop steppers, has 6 limit switches, an encoder for the spindle and an MPG with a quadrature encoder, and about 5 other buttons/knobs for input.  So I'd like to get a Mesa board that can handle all of those outputs and inputs.  In the future, I'd also be curious about using some glass scales on the X and Z axes of the lathe to provide feedback, but maybe that's another topic.

Are there any self-contained guides or tutorials on getting the mesa board setup with LinuxCNC?  Will I need to change the firmware on the FPGA to configure it?  Do I even need to run a real-time OS if the FPGA is controlling all the fast timing? 

I really appreciate all help and suggestions!
Carson
27 Oct 2023 00:11

Remora - ethernet NVEM / EC300 / EC500 cnc board

Category: Computers and Hardware

Frame size you might have some searching to do, they have 60mm frame size but Im not sure the nema equivalent.
Im fairly sure AC servos will be better, as the motors will probably be 200v. I dont remember if the ac servos get converted back to DC anyway.

When it came to sourcing the motors between AC and DC, my main deciding factor became supply voltage. I found it hard to source the servo drive with my voltage requirements for AC servos, as most I came across were 220v, where DC servo drives I could use 48v DC. My machine is a 110v machine, so it was the deciding factor. If you do not have these limitations, probably go with AC

Yeah my spindle is 220v, so I would rather use AC servos, I seen some on omc-stepperonline but their kind of expensive for the Nm output they have. Also for some reason they seem to be pretty low or out of stock.
25 Oct 2023 08:57

Tool Changer DIY with a Stepper or a Servo?

Category: Milling Machines

The ATC itself have no sensors - the VFD have some - like Temeprature, RPM, Failure of Spindle etc.- but for Clamping and Unclamping it looks there is no sensor inside the IBAG HF80. My idea is to build an sensor under the ATC - a very small one to check tool is inside. I mean the ATC is working over years without these sensors - but for me it looks better to control this - i have seen tools learn flying after a tool-changer problem because of alumnium-chips - and the spindle was damaged on the top - very expensive for the friend of me. Was Portatec wth an 12KW Spindle.
22 Oct 2023 16:57

Fusion 360 post issues (maybe?) on 2 axis lathe conversion

Category: Turning

You do need a spindle-speed-in for G95 to work.

You probably don't need a simulated encoder to achieve this. You can just connect spindle.0.speed-out to spindle.0.speed in in the HAL.

But, it would be much better to have an actual spindle encoder. There are many ways to get one set up, including using a gear in the head and a gear tooth sensor.



Thanks will try that hal code. Planning on adding an encoder soon just wanted to see movement and cut a few parts to test out the steppers.  

22 Oct 2023 13:07

Tool Changer DIY with a Stepper or a Servo?

Category: Milling Machines

Hello,
have mesa 7i97 running and use 3 axis with AC Servos. So i have two axis i can use in future and so my idea is to use one of them for the Tool-Changer Carousell i build by myself.
The question is - which system of motor and drive is good enough  - so a closed loop stepper is okay - but how can i wire a stepper to a 7i97 or for the easiest way should i use a servo - so i can connect like my other axis on the 7i97?
The prices around 200 € for an simple ac-servo and around 100€ for an closed loop stepper - i need only a small one i think - it rotate only 8 tools. My Tools are special on SKI 20 not SK20 - that made the tool-holder very expensive. Around 600 € for one. So i don't think i will upgrade to more as 8 tools - now i have 5 holders... ibag HF80 SKI20 spindle expensive one for 40.000 RPMs.
Have someone build such thing and have any ideas?
I want to build something like this:
12 Oct 2023 19:13 - 12 Oct 2023 19:15

setting up 7i92 for directio on steppers

Category: PnCConf Wizard

I'm looking at connecting 7i92tm boards to  a couple lathes which have been running through parallel ports . I want to simply connect the 7i92 directly to the current cheap breakout boards . I'm looking at this through vmware just to get a feel for it and I am confused as to how a direction pin is selected in the wizard . I'm seeing stepgen but nothing for direction which has me a bit confused .

At this point I just want to get the steppers running and I will eventually hook up encoders for the spindle
03 Oct 2023 21:33

Remora - ethernet NVEM / EC300 / EC500 cnc board

Category: Computers and Hardware

Hello! I am new to the CNC world and am currently building my first machine. Stepper drivers have have not arrived yet, but I already have the ec500-rt1052 and I’m trying to configure it. After countless failed experiments with Windows and Linux virtual machines (I still have to live with the culture shock of seeing the mach3 UI color scheme), I finally came to LinuxCNC on the RPi.

The first problem I tried to solve was changing the IP address to connect to my local network (yes, I know a network switch between ec500 and RPi is a bad idea). I changed the address and added debug code in

Remora-RT1052-cpp/Remora-RT1052-cpp/source/ethernet.h
Remora-NVEM/LinuxCNC/Components/NVMPG/nvmpg.c
Remora-NVEM/LinuxCNC/Components/Remora-nv/remora-nv.c

Did I miss anything?

According to linuxCNC STDOUT it can find the controller and establish TCP and UDP connections. But it is not even possible to toggle the emergency stop in the GUI. At same point it starts to complain in the output "Ethernet ERROR: Resource temporarily unavailable"

As the next attempt I rolled back my changes and returned to 10.10.10.10. It allows to toggle the emergency stop and even to run the sample code. But again at some point it blocks and starts to print "Ethernet ERROR: Resource temporarily unavailable"

I can imagine, that "Resource temporarily unavailable" by missing stepper drivers or by not connected spindle (however I am not sure that is the real reason). But why it does not work at all with the changed IP address? Should it be changed somewhere else? 

This is an Ethernet related error, basically no response back from the controller board in the time expected. 
03 Oct 2023 18:58

Remora - ethernet NVEM / EC300 / EC500 cnc board

Category: Computers and Hardware

Hello! I am new to the CNC world and am currently building my first machine. Stepper drivers have have not arrived yet, but I already have the ec500-rt1052 and I’m trying to configure it. After countless failed experiments with Windows and Linux virtual machines (I still have to live with the culture shock of seeing the mach3 UI color scheme), I finally came to LinuxCNC on the RPi.

The first problem I tried to solve was changing the IP address to connect to my local network (yes, I know a network switch between ec500 and RPi is a bad idea). I changed the address and added debug code in

Remora-RT1052-cpp/Remora-RT1052-cpp/source/ethernet.h
Remora-NVEM/LinuxCNC/Components/NVMPG/nvmpg.c
Remora-NVEM/LinuxCNC/Components/Remora-nv/remora-nv.c

Did I miss anything?

According to linuxCNC STDOUT it can find the controller and establish TCP and UDP connections. But it is not even possible to toggle the emergency stop in the GUI. At same point it starts to complain in the output "Ethernet ERROR: Resource temporarily unavailable"

As the next attempt I rolled back my changes and returned to 10.10.10.10. It allows to toggle the emergency stop and even to run the sample code. But again at some point it blocks and starts to print "Ethernet ERROR: Resource temporarily unavailable"

I can imagine, that "Resource temporarily unavailable" by missing stepper drivers or by not connected spindle (however I am not sure that is the real reason). But why it does not work at all with the changed IP address? Should it be changed somewhere else? 
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