Big Ohmic Problem ???
04 Oct 2020 23:13 - 04 Oct 2020 23:25 #184882
by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Big Ohmic Problem ???
What you do not want is any alternate low impedance path to ground via _any_ sense wiring
Last edit: 04 Oct 2020 23:25 by PCW. Reason: clarify
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04 Oct 2020 23:19 #184883
by snowgoer540
Oh, ok, thank you for putting that in laymen's terms for me That makes perfect sense now.
How do you feel about fuses on the sensing wires?
Replied by snowgoer540 on topic Big Ohmic Problem ???
What you do not want is any alternate path to ground via _any_ sense wiring
Oh, ok, thank you for putting that in laymen's terms for me That makes perfect sense now.
How do you feel about fuses on the sensing wires?
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04 Oct 2020 23:28 #184884
by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Big Ohmic Problem ???
My feeling is that it should not be needed, except in the event of component failure
(which seems unlikely)
(which seems unlikely)
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04 Oct 2020 23:48 #184885
by snowgoer540
Replied by snowgoer540 on topic Big Ohmic Problem ???
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05 Oct 2020 00:27 #184889
by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Big Ohmic Problem ???
Yes
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05 Oct 2020 00:53 #184895
by snowgoer540
Isn’t that kind of the point of fuses? You don’t need them until you do, and if you don’t have them, you start letting the smoke out of things...
Replied by snowgoer540 on topic Big Ohmic Problem ???
My feeling is that it should not be needed, except in the event of component failure
(which seems unlikely)
Isn’t that kind of the point of fuses? You don’t need them until you do, and if you don’t have them, you start letting the smoke out of things...
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05 Oct 2020 01:16 #184899
by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Big Ohmic Problem ???
Sure but the choice should be made on the basis of likelyhood of failure
Its possible that the power supply 24V side could get a low impedance short to ground
but its quite unlikely.
Its possible that the power supply 24V side could get a low impedance short to ground
but its quite unlikely.
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05 Oct 2020 02:10 #184914
by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic Big Ohmic Problem ???
I don't think the table ground can be looked at in isolation as being part of ohmic sensing. Wiring a star ground point should be done as well. That is really a seperate topic and would look after all the ground connections including the one added to the diagram.
There is a topic in the plasma section about wiring and EMI that covers it in detail.
There is a topic in the plasma section about wiring and EMI that covers it in detail.
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05 Oct 2020 02:21 #184915
by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic Big Ohmic Problem ???
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05 Oct 2020 06:48 - 05 Oct 2020 07:01 #184934
by Aciera
Replied by Aciera on topic Big Ohmic Problem ???
Just one last comment on the fuses and then I rest my case:
Anytime you attach a small gauge wire to a high energy potential you have a possibility of fire due to thermal overload in case of a fault. That's why in electrical installations you are required to fuse the wiring according to the possible short circuit current in case of a fault.
In this case I would agree that a ground fault in the isolated power supply is unlikely. IF you use a double insulated supply that is.
Here you need to have two faults. An unwanted ground loop in the sense wiring and a bad ground at the table or work piece. As we have already seen this can happen due to a misunderstanding of the circuit diagram and forgetting to attach the ground clamp.
I'm not a safety freak but there was already at least one case of fire and another where the potential was very real by grounding the sense loop. So clearly some thought should be given to protection.
Anytime you attach a small gauge wire to a high energy potential you have a possibility of fire due to thermal overload in case of a fault. That's why in electrical installations you are required to fuse the wiring according to the possible short circuit current in case of a fault.
In this case I would agree that a ground fault in the isolated power supply is unlikely. IF you use a double insulated supply that is.
Here you need to have two faults. An unwanted ground loop in the sense wiring and a bad ground at the table or work piece. As we have already seen this can happen due to a misunderstanding of the circuit diagram and forgetting to attach the ground clamp.
I'm not a safety freak but there was already at least one case of fire and another where the potential was very real by grounding the sense loop. So clearly some thought should be given to protection.
Last edit: 05 Oct 2020 07:01 by Aciera.
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