Feature Request: ramp piercing (aka moving piercing)

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16 Oct 2023 22:28 #283141 by rodw
The feature set of QTplasmac is pretty amazing, but there is one feature that is missing and that is ramp piercing to allow piercing of thick material. In this technique, the pierce "ramps" in because of movement of the X,Y axes and the Z axis during the pierce.
Here is a good tech doc about this technique (attached)
xnet.hypertherm.com/Xnet/library/download/?file=HYP113984

My guess, it would require a new pin to enable it and some additional pins to set the parameters.

I was reminded of this recently when a user maxed out his machine without being able to pierce 32mm steel. I think it could be done wiith this methid.

Have a think about it and see how it could be achieved.
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16 Oct 2023 23:08 #283143 by tommylight
Should be easy, says the one that has not dealt with external offsets since they came out! :)
Use external offsets ONLY during piercing to move the torch in small circles while lowering the torch.
Something like:
-start torch
-wait for arc ok
-if the feature is active, inside the time set as pierce delay:
--use offsets to make small circles, i see no reason this being adjustable, two settings should do, 1 or 2mm, 3mm might be needed for thick materials but i think it is to much
--lower the torch for the amount set, must be between material 0 and pierce height, can be 1mm from material to pierce height to avoid torch touching material and messing the nozzle
-disable feature/offsets and move to cut height
-proceed as usual
-
I would not do just lowering the torch, the nozzle will suffer from the melted metal spraying up, i have seen this, did not like it. Moving in a circle the melted stream will always fly sideways as that will be the path of least resistance/material.

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16 Oct 2023 23:51 - 16 Oct 2023 23:52 #283145 by rodw
My take twas that it ramped in during the leadin, not circular motion.
But you do bring me to another thought. Wiggle pierce is another technique.
Should it be coded to support different pierce types? 0 = normal pierce, 1 = ramp in, 2 = wiggle etc.
You would not have to code them all at once, just start with one.
Firey Roostertails from ramp pierce gets my vote for the first mode.!
 
Last edit: 16 Oct 2023 23:52 by rodw.

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17 Oct 2023 01:25 #283150 by phillc54
We did look at wiggle piercing a long time ago but were put off by comments from Jim Colt that indicated it was detrimental to consumable life due to the excessive shower of molten material. I am not 100% sure if this related to ramp piercing as well though. I am also not sure that ramp piercing on a HP plasma could be related to an air plasma either.

In the end we went with pierce only mode which gives users the opportunity to do the initial pierce with end of life consumables and then switch to good consumables for the final Cut.

We could look at this again but we would probably need some input from folk experienced at cutting thick materials.

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17 Oct 2023 02:08 #283153 by tommylight

My take twas that it ramped in during the leadin, not circular motion.

 

That will never pierce through thick material as it will consistently have to pierce the same amount of material.
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It is called wiggle piercing, it literally does small circles, as can be seen:

And it is built in in SheetCAM.

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18 Oct 2023 06:14 #283211 by rodw
Sheetcam natively supports both wiggle piercing and ramp piercing so it makes sense to support these piercing methods in QTplasmac so they don't have be reinvented.

Ramp piercing is legitimate piercing metthod but its hard to visualise how it works. But essentially, sheetcam digs an angled trench at 45 degrees during the pierce delay and the dross is thrown back out of the trench behind the torch as it digs deeper..

I've been collaborating with James (JoCo on the forum) today and a very minor change to plasmac.comp has enabled wiggle piercing which is tested and working.

As long as QTplasmac's Keep Z Motion feature leaves the THC enabled (I assume it does), ramp piercing should also be supported with what we've achieved. But one breakthrough per day will have to do!

@Phil can you confirm the THC still functions with
#<keep-z-motion> = 1
 

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18 Oct 2023 07:17 #283214 by phillc54

@Phil can you confirm the THC still functions with
#<keep-z-motion> = 1 

From memory it does.
The following user(s) said Thank You: rodw

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18 Oct 2023 07:49 #283215 by rodw

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21 Oct 2023 04:34 #283419 by grijalvap
One thing i saw from pierce only, is that when you pierce the first time(with old consumables) it works good, but then you change the consumables an start again, but the arc never transfer because there is not metal but a hole, how do you deal with this? 

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21 Oct 2023 04:55 #283420 by phillc54
I have never used it, the only person I know that used it was thefabricator03 and I don't recall him mentioning that as an issue.
 

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