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Please help, I need some addvise

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10 May 2013 01:20 #33853 by cncbasher
you need to reverse the logic of the limit switches , use the invert tick box in stepconf
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10 May 2013 01:48 #33854 by Todd Zuercher
Or if you don't want to open stepconf again. You can just add "-not" to the end of your paraport in line.
like this:
net min-home-x <= parport.0.pin-10-in-not
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10 May 2013 02:18 - 10 May 2013 12:46 #33855 by ArcEye
Thank you Todd,
Yes please don't go anywhere near stepconf again just invert the signals by adding -not.

After having my mind bent by a diagram for X mode parport, which is not how they are wired up, the most obvious thing that strikes me is that this diagram is just for 2 axes.
(ie this is not the wiring diagram for your controller)

Assuming they are all wired the same way (2 and 3 axis versions) and your driver outputs run from the top to bottom, x, y, z,
It looks like Z has pins 6 & 7 connected, but which parport pins do they go to, 2 & 3 or 6 & 7?
Likewise the enable pin, 5 or 9 ?

Try replacing the Router.hal and Router.ini files with the ones in this zip (I have just reversed the logic of the limits and moved what was in custom.hal to where it should be in Router.hal)
See if it starts.

Then look physically at which parport the Z output is on and which pins of the parport the Z dir and clock are connected to and change those to suit.

regards


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Last edit: 10 May 2013 12:46 by ArcEye.
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11 May 2013 06:03 #33911 by allenwg2005
Arceye, I agree with both you and Todd.
I am no longer going to use Step Configuration for anything, if it isn't going to get Lcnc going in earnest I see no point in wasting anymore time with it. Thank you very much for the fresh hal and ini.
Talk about going above and beyond for a fellow enthusiast! I'm grateful.

I really thought I was helping the the situation with the wiring diagram, this is the way the machine was originally wired. I have another wiring diagram from the fellow who built the machine, it makes the one I sent look positively crystal clear, I have compared them carefully and they do match. 
This must be how the original “Indexer LPT” software (a windows based program) required it.

I intended to include the Z axis information for you, I got pulled away and by the time I returned to the email the thought was lost and I had submitted the post.  
Yes, Z is step/direction pins 2&3, and ampenable is pin 5. (A little late for that info now, I know).

Now, the good news.
I found I still had a limit problem after replacing the hal and ini.
Back when I moved the limit wires on the Z axis breakout as directed, I was concerned about an anomaly I thought I had seen there. 
At the time I was more interested in seeing if the drives and motors were OK than taking time to untie a possible limit switch knot. I set it aside for later, (now IS “later”).
I wanted to make sure I was not wasting your time so I investigated further. I',m glad I did.
I think the reason this machine was shelved was someone had screwing with the wiring for whatever reason and got themselves in over their head. Rather than trying to sort it out or pay someone to do that, the machine just got pushed aside. You would have to know the seller to appreciate this situation. Not a supprise!

I think I have this sorted out, your critique of these results should be interesting and helpful.

Lcnc is working, with just a few things that may or may not be problems, please let me know.

X axis: This one has a nice sound and travel with one issue, it can stall just as I hit an arrow key.
If I hit the key in the opposite direction it runs smooth, and when I switch directions back again it usually run
smooth in the original direction. An adjustment I hope?
It will home when I click the home button, all though it will hang there, I have to shut down the drive,  move it off the prox. switch by hand, and start everything over again to get my travel back.
The same is true of the max limit, when the prox. is tripped, it will not move anymore.

Y axis: In a word, sweet as can be, it will take a jog speed as high as it goes. (Not that it should be needed).
The limits react the same on Y as they do on the X axis. It homes and hangs, or trips max and hangs.

Z axis: (Before I start here, I have cleaned the drive box but have not disassembled the drive to check the connections as Todd suggested on the transformer to driver terminal as yet).
I have travel, it is gravely in sound, and it stalls sometimes while going down and often when going up.
I have the jog speed set at 4.5 in/min and the velocity at 62.6. These settings are best, with the lest amount of noise and stalling. I noticed page down moves it up, and up moves it down. where in the system should I fix this?
This axis will NOT home when I click the home button.
It will travel to max limit and hang as the others do. 

I understand the motion issues may be drive related, what should I do to confirm this? 

Thanks as always.

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11 May 2013 09:36 #33914 by Todd Zuercher
1st thing to check unplug the connectors that plug into the drive (they are green Phoenix screw terminal plugs) If the plastic is brown or discolored (indicating arcing and a bad connection) replace them.

2nd thing to check, unscrew the cover on the drive and look inside. Inside there will be a duel output AC transformer with 4 wires to each driver board (2 for high voltage and 2 for low) These are connected to the driver boards with simple 1/4" push on spade connectors. If any of these are bad the insulation on them will be obviously charred. Often the connector will have gotten so hot as to melt all the solder off the boards connector.

3rd thing to check is the continuity of your motor cabling.
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11 May 2013 14:58 #33918 by ArcEye
Great, sounds like you are making progress, at least all the wiring and hal connections are right now.

one issue, it can stall just as I hit an arrow key.

Lower the default jog speed, this can quite often happen, especially in a sudden transition between directions.
At present you have not tuned the system, we are just happy to have it moving.
Your acceleration figures are high compared to your velocity figures, that will exacerbate losing steps when jogging

In your ini file default jogging speed and acceleration are set in the [TRAJ] section
DEFAULT_VELOCITY = 1
DEFAULT_ACCELERATION = 10
those should give smooth jogging, albeit slower than now, but after all jogging is largely there to position axes not to do speed trials!

The same is true of the max limit, when the prox. is tripped, it will not move anymore.

Because you have combined limits and home switches ( a set up I hate and never use ) you can have problems.

But I suspect you are tripping the limit, but don't know you can override it to jog off it again.

When you hit the limit, it turns the machine off and greys the display
There is a checkbox mid screen on the left that says 'Override limits'
Click this to check it, press F2 and you will be able to jog off the switch again.

Main thing to do now is the checks Todd listed. Just one dry or burnt joint can play havoc.

regards
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12 May 2013 00:07 #33934 by allenwg2005
Todd, The contacts appear to be good as new, just for fun I included some photos of the drive while open, and a shot of the terminals on the side too.
I checked the continuity on the motors last week per AA's instructions.
I did not look for a specific resistance however, is that necessary?
If so do you know those values?

Arceye, I have been playing with the speed/velocity settings, I have found good balances for the respective axes, paying less attention to the tone or the sound of the motors and focusing on the performance of each individually. They appear to be functioning as they should. No stumbling.

When I home any axes the “override limits” check box is greyed out, is there a fix for this?

As to limit+home, I only chose that as a reasonable guess as to how I should do this.
If you “hate this setup”, I want to know what you PREFER, I don't want to live with a stupid guess when I can arrange and configure this a better way.
Please let me know your preference on this, now is the time to make these changes and adjustments.
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I had two prox switches at minimum positions on each axes, should these be in use? They are still available if needed.

Another item: The home limits on the machine are (standing in front of the machine) X = right side of axis travel,
Y = all the way back, (Z = up of course).
The illustration on the Lcnc screen is the opposite, X left, Y out.
Should I, or can I change this?
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12 May 2013 09:09 #33938 by Todd Zuercher
I have never seen those plugs on the outside of the drive in black before. All the ones we have are green. Being black, it is going to be almost impossible to tell if one is burned just by looking at it. Anyway it often helps to pull the plug out and reinsert it a couple of times to clean the contacts. Monday when I am at work I could post a picture of what a burned one looks like.

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12 May 2013 17:00 #33943 by ArcEye

When I home any axes the “override limits” check box is greyed out, is there a fix for this?


No the box should be enabled when you have hit the limit switch and stopped the machine.

As to limit+home, I only chose that as a reasonable guess as to how I should do this.
If you “hate this setup”, I want to know what you PREFER, I don't want to live with a stupid guess when I can arrange and configure this a better way.
Please let me know your preference on this, now is the time to make these changes and adjustments.
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I had two prox switches at minimum positions on each axes, should these be in use? They are still available if needed.


It is just my personal preference, I find combined home / limit switches difficult to set up and prone to problems.
I always chain all of my limits together onto one pin, it saves 5 pins and you only have to glance at the machine to see which switch tripped.
In fact if the soft limits are set properly, it never will trip, so even less reason to waste 6 pins on the limits.

On my big mill which had individual limits wired in a way that made it very difficult to chain them, I made a logic circuit which took the 6 inputs and triggered if any of them went low, so as to still use 1 pin.
It all means that on a 3 axis machine with 9 limit and home switches I can run the whole thing on 1 parport and use another for my pendant.

I set up home switches just inside the limits normally, but they could be anywhere depending upon the machine and the work it does.

Another item: The home limits on the machine are (standing in front of the machine) X = right side of axis travel,
Y = all the way back, (Z = up of course).
The illustration on the Lcnc screen is the opposite, X left, Y out.
Should I, or can I change this?


If I understand you correctly, X and Y home are at the positive end of the axis travel.
This might mean you programming negative values, where it would be more natural to use positive ones, depends on your working practices.

All you have to do is designate the other proximity switches as limit/home, connecting them to the pins currently in use.
You might need to change your latching values, but this might cure your home problems, they could be moving off the home switch in the wrong direction and that is triggering the limit.

Ref the photo of the circuit board.
I would remove each spade connector individually and clean the spade and the plug with a wire brush, they can corrode quite badly and you cannot see it unless you dismantle.

Also check all the solder joints, that the actual joint has not parted from the board. Sometimes you find the copper track has severed and there is the most marginal of edge connections and the actual
component pin will move complete with solder.

Be careful around the rectifier bridges though, there is a big capacitor somewhere near just waiting to zap you!

regards

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13 May 2013 03:00 #33969 by allenwg2005
Todd and Arceye,

Both of you have made it inescapably clear that the contacts need more than a cursory inspection, or a passing glance. The emphases is not wasted on me. I am pursuing this aggressively now.
Thanks for the heads up on the capacitor, it's never fun to hook up with stored electricity unexpectedly.

Arceye,
I like your idea of “chaining” the limits, it's simple, useful, and practical.
The manual is fairly truncated in regards to limits, most likely because it's just that simple.
So let me see if I understand this correctly.
I will need two proximity switches on the homing end of the axes, one for axis limit and the other (just ahead of the limit switch) for home, both wired together, and to the same pin as all the other switches.
Is this correct?
I assume you are using the pull up resistors in your set up? (Todd also mentioned them earlier).
If this is the case, the limit beyond the home switches is nothing more than a fail-safe to avoid a hard limit strike. Correct?
The program must see home, and for the most part, stays inside the work envelope it and max limit establish.
I'm anguishes to learn more about soft limits.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

You are correct on the travel values being negative. I have no interest in fighting this issue so I need to move the home switches to the opposite end of travel.

I now have a lot of work to go do.

Thank you so much for your help.

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