Roland mdx-650a question

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31 Oct 2013 23:37 - 31 Oct 2013 23:40 #40458 by jlviloria
Replied by jlviloria on topic Roland mdx-650a question
thanks, Andy.

Right now I'm with my servos shinano-kenshi.

thought it would be easier to square the PID. I have connected a single servo. with PWM drives, I have everything connected as motorlab document (page 8). which specifies each servo cable is.

Jon has helped me immensely, but I have not succeeded in tuning my servo.

the servo not rotate, single is static, vibrate,

I have the following measurements:

4) TB1-1 and TB1-2 = 24VDC
5) TB1-2 and H1 = 0.01
5.1) TB1-2 and H2 = 3.24
5.2) TB1-2 and H3 = 3.24

there may be wrong and how to try to reach a successful conclusion.

regard,


Jorge
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Last edit: 31 Oct 2013 23:40 by jlviloria.

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31 Oct 2013 23:42 #40459 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Roland mdx-650a question

thanks, Andy.

4) TB1-1 and TB1-2 = 24VDC
5) TB1-2 and H1 = 0.01
5.1) TB1-2 and H2 = 3.24
5.2) TB1-2 and H3 = 3.24


That looks like the Hall sensors are working. If you remove the motor power and rotate the motor by hand you should see the H1 H2 and H3 values changing in a sequence.

To make the motor work you probably just need to swap the Hall sensor wires. Just work through all the combinations until you find one that works :-)

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15 Nov 2013 12:26 #40836 by nick gill
Replied by nick gill on topic Roland mdx-650a question
Hi guys
I too have a MDX-650A and I want to change it.
I am happy with the performance except the spindle is really rubbish. I want an ATC anyway so I'd like to install this unit if possible: USOVO spindle
I'm not an electrical engineer but I do work with electronics and I'm a quick learner. I'm happy to test anything and report my findings. I've got an engineer starting with us from next week, but he's into power supplies and won't probably know how these things are controlled.
I'd really appreciate it if you guys could outline what steps I will need to take to get the Roland running and controlling a better spindle motor.
Cheers, Nick.

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15 Nov 2013 21:07 #40839 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Roland mdx-650a question

I want an ATC anyway so I'd like to install this unit if possible: USOVO spindle


It looks like it should be possible, it might even be easy.

What is your current control system? Without the manuals it is hard to see how that system interfaces, but the p-port adapter mentions breaking out the spindle control lines and the 0-10V, so I assume it contains a PWM to voltage converter for parallel port interfacing. It looks like the control box also contains the required pneumatic valves, and possibly an interlock so that the tool can't be released when spinning (which is normally bad :-)

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16 Nov 2013 21:54 #40863 by jlviloria
Replied by jlviloria on topic Roland mdx-650a question
Cheers Nick .

this machine you will not find much information on electronic drawings .

in my case the main board was damaged , find the manufacturer and is very expensive , so I decided for picosystem , servo motors are coupled well to his electronica, to me cost something, but it's my lack of knowledge in electronics . but I did it with the help of the guys who always have patience to meet the dumbest questions they may be,

That does not have much torque spindle is normal for this type of machine , so with the axes , can not be cut steels ,

is made for plastic , wood , soft metals . I 'm going to be machined including machinable resin for foundry models .

I have a dilemma with the spindle motor but is by knowing the hall sensor connection , when you buy the machine came without the main board , ovbiamente I knew , so buy it cheap, but I thought I could easily find information of servomotors , but the spindle servomotors I could not find anything ... and I have some fear of damaging it.

by chance the board does not indicate what the 5 + and GND spindle hall sensor ?

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17 Nov 2013 04:13 #40879 by nick gill
Replied by nick gill on topic Roland mdx-650a question
Hi Andy and Jorge !

by chance the board does not indicate what the 5 + and GND spindle hall sensor ?


Do you want to see a picture of the spindle control board Jorge?

I am just converting my machine from 115V to 240V right now. Should be finished changing the internal configuration today.

in my case the main board was damaged

You mean the really big logic board? Do you know how this happened?

but I did it with the help of the guys

So you now have the Picosystem controlling the XYZ axes ? Can you show me a schematic (wiring) of how you did this and what the servomotors require?

Peter Urban from USOVO replied to my 600W ATC Spindle inquiry. He said "the WZW104 works with 24V and 30A. It is a different technic. You should use it almost near the top speed, less rpm are not good for use over many ours."
So I think now this is not the best spindle for me. I don't want to run 20000RPM all the time. So I am now looking for another ATC spindle. Ideas?
My current spindle (Nidec UGBTEH-5) is 100VAC , 400W, and only 6700rpm. It has 3 power wires + power/GND/3 Hall-effect wires.

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17 Nov 2013 19:07 #40890 by nick gill
Replied by nick gill on topic Roland mdx-650a question

So I am now looking for another ATC spindle. Ideas?
My current spindle (Nidec UGBTEH-5) is 100VAC , 400W, and only 6700rpm. It has 3 power wires + power/GND/3 Hall-effect wires.


I am looking at these quality spindles:
Jager Z45-D160.03 S3
Jager ZZ80-H230.01 S19W2/3
Jager ARS72-M216.04 S3

It would be so good to get rid of this Nidec spindle and have something that would drive the tool directly, instead of via the 1:2 ratio belt, and 20,000 rpm capability.
So it seems we have good voltage match with the Jaeger spindles. Just need to understand the control.
Jorge, do you think I should try to use the Roland spindle controller or eliminate it and use a third party controller?
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18 Nov 2013 10:14 #40912 by jlviloria
Replied by jlviloria on topic Roland mdx-650a question
Nick ,

First some history :

This machine buy it second hand , the previous owner told me very well cut soft materials to achieve machined aluminum. sold it because the main board was damaged , the cause = a bad program always hit the machine and engine overload alarm went out , try to buy the card, but in the end decided to buy something more robust, a machining center .

buy the machine without the main card because he had led the United States to buy the card and never returned .


Well I'm not the expert on these matters but it can be better, I hope someone reads and collaborate, but in my case , and would be an achievement to make it work .

I discard all the electronics of it , just let servomotors , micro -switch , brake, all controlled with PWM drives picosystems .

pico-systems.com/acservo.html

pico-systems.com/images/keling.pdf
my connection is identical to this and you connect the encoder directly to the UPC .

UPC = pico-systems.com/univpwm.html

and here is an example of how to connect :

pico-systems.com/images/pwmuse.pdf


clear that it would be ideal one spindle more robust and more RPM, but my mission right now is to run the Nidec UGBTEH -5.

What I need is to identify which are the hall sensor wires to know which is 5vdc and GND for connection to the PWM -drivers

Deputy morning pictures of how my job to give you an idea .

with respect to the spindle , I Nidec ponero to work with , then I'll look if I can modify .

thanks,

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18 Nov 2013 10:51 #40914 by nick gill
Replied by nick gill on topic Roland mdx-650a question

my mission right now is to run the Nidec UGBTEH -5.

What I need is to identify which are the hall sensor wires to know which is 5vdc and GND for connection to the PWM -drivers


Hi Jorge
I will start my machine and run it for you, looking for the wire designations.

How much was the replacement quote for mainboard from Roland?

I really hate the Nidec, it really needs to be 600W. A wimp, and slow.

What I don't understand is why does the spindle have hall sensors? It is acting like a big high-speed servo motor? If the spindle slows down, hall sensors tell controller to apply more power until the correct power/speed angle is reached ?
Do you think the Jaeger spindles have hall sensors? I wonder if the hall sensors can be adapted to another spindle?
Many questions.....

Thanks, Nick

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18 Nov 2013 10:57 #40915 by jlviloria
Replied by jlviloria on topic Roland mdx-650a question
But I read in all and all information borchure web 12000rpm this machine works, which is more than enough for me.

board's budget was USD 8000, but I'm in Colombia import, sale expensive.

here are all manuals you can find

www.e-engraving.com/machines/roland/Rola...X-650_Modela_Pro.htm

regards

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