Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
- MacGalempsy
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04 Feb 2017 00:21 #87269
by MacGalempsy
Replied by MacGalempsy on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
Today there was a series of successes on PID tuning the BenchmanXT. Error on the xyz are down to 0.0001". This can be improved, but decided to move on. After lunch, I decided to move on to working on the spindle, which has produced frustration. Since the Allen Bradley Ultra 100 drive had input-1 set to torque-mode-selection, I am assuming the original machine was configured in torque mode. I tried one method of increasing FF0 until it produced a stable RPM, then increase I until it hits the desired RPM. It did not work as expected. At a commanded 100rpm, the spindle would not break static. I turned by the time I got the spindle to break static with a commanded 100rpm, the result was over 700rpm. After a few hours of messing around with the numbers, it was time to try moving on to a traditional PID tuning. FYI a small amount of P and I go a long ways. If you are reading this before attempting to tune your spindle, be cautious and start out VERY LOW and work your way up. This time the idea was to start out with a little higher rpm, 500rpm. Once P was high enough to stabilize at ~500rpm, the commanded 600rpm ended up making me shut it down because it started to accelerate to very high numbers. After a while of trying these out for a bit, it was time for a break and ask for some advice. If anyone of you have manually tuned the spindle in your BXT, please give up some tips!
Thanks,
MAC
Thanks,
MAC
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04 Feb 2017 00:29 #87270
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
A spindle PID will typically be mainly FF0 and IGain.
Choose a middle-ground speed (probably one you expect to use a lot, rather than an arithmetic average) and set the FF0 to make that exactly right. Then choose a speed nearer your anticipated limits, and set Igain such that it corrects to that speed without overshoot or oscillation. Then set to the opposite end and see what you get. if there is an overshoot (or reversal) then consider limiting the maxerrorI (google for I-term windup).
That's basically it. You could add some PGain to make response faster, but you might not need it. In this context P-gain will act more like D-gain.
You won't be wanting any D-gain.
Choose a middle-ground speed (probably one you expect to use a lot, rather than an arithmetic average) and set the FF0 to make that exactly right. Then choose a speed nearer your anticipated limits, and set Igain such that it corrects to that speed without overshoot or oscillation. Then set to the opposite end and see what you get. if there is an overshoot (or reversal) then consider limiting the maxerrorI (google for I-term windup).
That's basically it. You could add some PGain to make response faster, but you might not need it. In this context P-gain will act more like D-gain.
You won't be wanting any D-gain.
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- MacGalempsy
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05 Feb 2017 00:27 #87319
by MacGalempsy
Replied by MacGalempsy on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
Don,
Can you help me out with some of the variables in this post? I understand PID, SPU. But was does Int Range mean? Is there a term in the .ini file that this relates to? Also, is the Accel of the spindle 50deg/s^2 or 50rpm/s?
Thanks,
Mac
Can you help me out with some of the variables in this post? I understand PID, SPU. But was does Int Range mean? Is there a term in the .ini file that this relates to? Also, is the Accel of the spindle 50deg/s^2 or 50rpm/s?
Thanks,
Mac
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- x-Intelitek Engineer
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06 Feb 2017 15:27 #87402
by x-Intelitek Engineer
Replied by x-Intelitek Engineer on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
Your axis error of 0.0001" is what the machines left the factory with.
I don't ever recall having to tune one of those spindles. I inherited the spindle/spindle drive combinations for the XT line and wasn't allowed to change anything until the 45K, 50K spindle options and drive obsolescence issues required it.
If I recall correctly, the only time we used the drives in torque mode was for rigid tapping applications (low RPM), it should have been in velocity mode at all other times. However, with that being said, it has been a long time since I was hands deep with an XT spindle so I could be completely out of it.
I don't recall the specific details of the terms in the .ini file and my attempts to contact the software guru for the Benchman product line have been unsuccessful.
Not much help, I know.
Sorry
Don
I don't ever recall having to tune one of those spindles. I inherited the spindle/spindle drive combinations for the XT line and wasn't allowed to change anything until the 45K, 50K spindle options and drive obsolescence issues required it.
If I recall correctly, the only time we used the drives in torque mode was for rigid tapping applications (low RPM), it should have been in velocity mode at all other times. However, with that being said, it has been a long time since I was hands deep with an XT spindle so I could be completely out of it.
I don't recall the specific details of the terms in the .ini file and my attempts to contact the software guru for the Benchman product line have been unsuccessful.
Not much help, I know.
Sorry
Don
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07 Feb 2017 12:52 #87452
by x-Intelitek Engineer
Replied by x-Intelitek Engineer on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
Mac,
On checking my information, I do have a copy of the parameter (.PAR) file used by the Ultra-Master software for this spindle motor (dated 2005). I cannot open it without the Ultra-Master software which I cannot run on any machine I have. (NT was the last version I knew worked). Contact me if you want it and I will send it.
Don
On checking my information, I do have a copy of the parameter (.PAR) file used by the Ultra-Master software for this spindle motor (dated 2005). I cannot open it without the Ultra-Master software which I cannot run on any machine I have. (NT was the last version I knew worked). Contact me if you want it and I will send it.
Don
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07 Feb 2017 12:54 #87453
by andypugh
Does it look intelligible in a text editor?
Replied by andypugh on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
I cannot open it without the Ultra-Master software which I cannot run on any machine I have.
Does it look intelligible in a text editor?
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07 Feb 2017 12:59 #87454
by x-Intelitek Engineer
Replied by x-Intelitek Engineer on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
No, it is unintelligible with text editors, but I also have the Ultramaster S/W if you need it (also limited to NT). It may work with XP, but again, I have no way to verify.
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07 Feb 2017 13:05 #87455
by andypugh
How big is the file? Maybe it is possible to tease out the data with a hex editor.
Replied by andypugh on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
No, it is unintelligible with text editors,
How big is the file? Maybe it is possible to tease out the data with a hex editor.
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07 Feb 2017 13:11 #87456
by x-Intelitek Engineer
Replied by x-Intelitek Engineer on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
It is a 5KB file.
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07 Feb 2017 16:39 #87466
by andypugh
In that case, I withdraw any hint of a suggestion that I might volunteer to go through it with a hex editor.
Replied by andypugh on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
It is a 5KB file.
In that case, I withdraw any hint of a suggestion that I might volunteer to go through it with a hex editor.
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