Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
22 Jun 2017 21:10 #94809
by genixia
Replied by genixia on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
Thank you, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the information you've added to this thread. These machines are awesome little beasts, and deserve to be kept running.
I've been going through the machine whilst waiting for an electrical panel to be put in my garage for power and have a couple of questions:
My z-axis brake seems to be disconnected. As far as I can tell, a 24v and Gnd pair of wires (red/yellow) snake up from the PSU to the z-axis. As that pair of wires pass the control board the red wire is interrupted by a connector socket that is currently floating in space. I suspect that it should connect to pins 3-4 of J5 (schematic location 1D3). Can you confirm that?
Next question, still regarding that brake. The z-axis will move by hand. Is that normal for a machine without power? I would have thought from the schematic that the brake is powered to disengage, and that it should be locked otherwise. Does that suggest a problem with the brake that the previous owner forgot about? Or is it possible that the 45k spindle machine doesn't use a brake and the disconnected connector is simply an unused part of a common harness?
Still Z-axis, any idea where the way covers came from? My lower cover flops outward and is a mess. I'm guessing it's identical to the top cover that is in much better shape and that I can swap them to provide better protection nearer the cut, but if a replacement were affordable...
Finally, my spindle is cooled by a Turmoil chiller, containing a pinkish oil. I'm assuming that it is original spec. Any clues on compatible oils should I ever need to top it up?
I've been going through the machine whilst waiting for an electrical panel to be put in my garage for power and have a couple of questions:
My z-axis brake seems to be disconnected. As far as I can tell, a 24v and Gnd pair of wires (red/yellow) snake up from the PSU to the z-axis. As that pair of wires pass the control board the red wire is interrupted by a connector socket that is currently floating in space. I suspect that it should connect to pins 3-4 of J5 (schematic location 1D3). Can you confirm that?
Next question, still regarding that brake. The z-axis will move by hand. Is that normal for a machine without power? I would have thought from the schematic that the brake is powered to disengage, and that it should be locked otherwise. Does that suggest a problem with the brake that the previous owner forgot about? Or is it possible that the 45k spindle machine doesn't use a brake and the disconnected connector is simply an unused part of a common harness?
Still Z-axis, any idea where the way covers came from? My lower cover flops outward and is a mess. I'm guessing it's identical to the top cover that is in much better shape and that I can swap them to provide better protection nearer the cut, but if a replacement were affordable...
Finally, my spindle is cooled by a Turmoil chiller, containing a pinkish oil. I'm assuming that it is original spec. Any clues on compatible oils should I ever need to top it up?
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23 Jun 2017 13:53 #94839
by x-Intelitek Engineer
Replied by x-Intelitek Engineer on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
My z-axis brake seems to be disconnected. As far as I can tell, a 24v and Gnd pair of wires (red/yellow) snake up from the PSU to the z-axis. As that pair of wires pass the control board the red wire is interrupted by a connector socket that is currently floating in space. I suspect that it should connect to pins 3-4 of J5 (schematic location 1D3). Can you confirm that?
I can confirm that! The power supply generates +24V for the Z-Axis brake that is switched by J5-3&4.
Next question, still regarding that brake. The z-axis will move by hand. Is that normal for a machine without power? I would have thought from the schematic that the brake is powered to disengage, and that it should be locked otherwise. Does that suggest a problem with the brake that the previous owner forgot about? Or is it possible that the 45k spindle machine doesn't use a brake and the disconnected connector is simply an unused part of a common harness?
You are correct, the brake is powered to disengage. If you can move the Z-Axis by hand, the brake is not functioning. Remove the brake from the back of the Z-Axis motor and make sure the nut is firmly attached to the motor shaft. The brake locks the nut and the not locks the shaft. Every Benchman machine regardless of spindle configuration has a Z-Axis brake. Otherwise if the machine is not servoing position (think E-Stop pressed, etc) then the Z-Axis will drift down due to its weight.
Still Z-axis, any idea where the way covers came from? My lower cover flops outward and is a mess. I'm guessing it's identical to the top cover that is in much better shape and that I can swap them to provide better protection nearer the cut, but if a replacement were affordable...
That depends on your definition of affordable. If I recall correctly, those covers came from Gore and were relatively expensive. They were built to Light Machines specs and prints so I doubt they would be available anywhere but Light Machines. You could always give them a call and find out. (I do believe they were symmetric).
Finally, my spindle is cooled by a Turmoil chiller, containing a pinkish oil. I'm assuming that it is original spec. Any clues on compatible oils should I ever need to top it up?
I wouldn't ever try mixing chiller fluids. It may work or you may end up with a sludgey mess that requires a full spindle system teardown, clean, and rebuild. Again call Light Machines and ask what chiller coolant is used/recommended.
Note: Light Machines and Intelitek are the same company. I was employed during the name change and always felt more aligned with the Light Machines side of the business.
I can confirm that! The power supply generates +24V for the Z-Axis brake that is switched by J5-3&4.
Next question, still regarding that brake. The z-axis will move by hand. Is that normal for a machine without power? I would have thought from the schematic that the brake is powered to disengage, and that it should be locked otherwise. Does that suggest a problem with the brake that the previous owner forgot about? Or is it possible that the 45k spindle machine doesn't use a brake and the disconnected connector is simply an unused part of a common harness?
You are correct, the brake is powered to disengage. If you can move the Z-Axis by hand, the brake is not functioning. Remove the brake from the back of the Z-Axis motor and make sure the nut is firmly attached to the motor shaft. The brake locks the nut and the not locks the shaft. Every Benchman machine regardless of spindle configuration has a Z-Axis brake. Otherwise if the machine is not servoing position (think E-Stop pressed, etc) then the Z-Axis will drift down due to its weight.
Still Z-axis, any idea where the way covers came from? My lower cover flops outward and is a mess. I'm guessing it's identical to the top cover that is in much better shape and that I can swap them to provide better protection nearer the cut, but if a replacement were affordable...
That depends on your definition of affordable. If I recall correctly, those covers came from Gore and were relatively expensive. They were built to Light Machines specs and prints so I doubt they would be available anywhere but Light Machines. You could always give them a call and find out. (I do believe they were symmetric).
Finally, my spindle is cooled by a Turmoil chiller, containing a pinkish oil. I'm assuming that it is original spec. Any clues on compatible oils should I ever need to top it up?
I wouldn't ever try mixing chiller fluids. It may work or you may end up with a sludgey mess that requires a full spindle system teardown, clean, and rebuild. Again call Light Machines and ask what chiller coolant is used/recommended.
Note: Light Machines and Intelitek are the same company. I was employed during the name change and always felt more aligned with the Light Machines side of the business.
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23 Jun 2017 19:18 #94867
by genixia
Replied by genixia on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
Thanks, knowing how the brake is supposed to work goes a *long* way to helping me fix it!
It doesn't shock me to hear that the way covers were pricey. It seems that everything on this machine was designed with quality as its underlying ethos. I'll reach out to LMC, but I suspect that I'll end up doing the top-bottom swap. They look identical and common sense suggests they should be. I'll find out in due time.
Great call on the oil sludge potential. That spindle rebuild would be an expensive mistake to make. It might be a non-issue anyway - it pumps fine without pump errors, and shouldn't be evaporating. It looks a little lower in the sump then I'd expect, so I'll look more into that.
It doesn't shock me to hear that the way covers were pricey. It seems that everything on this machine was designed with quality as its underlying ethos. I'll reach out to LMC, but I suspect that I'll end up doing the top-bottom swap. They look identical and common sense suggests they should be. I'll find out in due time.
Great call on the oil sludge potential. That spindle rebuild would be an expensive mistake to make. It might be a non-issue anyway - it pumps fine without pump errors, and shouldn't be evaporating. It looks a little lower in the sump then I'd expect, so I'll look more into that.
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23 Jun 2017 19:24 #94868
by x-Intelitek Engineer
Replied by x-Intelitek Engineer on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
The coolant is a water-based coolant. The key is to make sure you use distilled water mixed with the coolant. LMC should be able to tell you exactly what it is.
The pump should essentially be a closed system. The only place for evaporation would be caps that are not tight and/or leaks.
The pump should essentially be a closed system. The only place for evaporation would be caps that are not tight and/or leaks.
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28 Jun 2017 07:30 #95094
by genixia
Replied by genixia on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
So that nut was indeed loose. A few minutes with an allen key solved that problem, the z-axis is now locked. I suppose I should ensure that the brake disengages when 24V is applied before I go too much further there.
I can also confirm that the z-axis way covers are identical. The bottom one was a mess, chips on both sides. No evidence of chips on the ballscrew or rails though. Once I gave it a good clean with kero and an old toothbrush and removed the chip build-up from the inside of the folds, it concertinaed much better, although still not as good as the top cover, so i am swapping them.
I also found what might by evidence of a crash. Low on the front face of the left z-axis rail is what looks like a small gouge from a cutter. Both the running edges of the rail appear perfect, so I'll take a stone to that gouge just to ensure that it won't foul the carriage. The gouge corresponds to an aberration on the way cover. How a cutter gouged the rail without actually puncturing the cover is beyond me. I know that prior to rebuild the spindle suffered from high G vibrations, and crashes are a major cause of ceramic bearing failure, so it wouldn't surprise me.
That spindle rebuild could also explain the minor coolant loss. I'll extract a few cc from the chiller and confirm that it mixes with distilled water ok. The chiller only holds 2G, and can't be more than a pint or so low. I'll likely just top it with distilled water. Water soluble coolant is likely glycol based for both its anti-corrosion and anti-freeze properties, and should be tolerant of a few percent dilution.
I can also confirm that the z-axis way covers are identical. The bottom one was a mess, chips on both sides. No evidence of chips on the ballscrew or rails though. Once I gave it a good clean with kero and an old toothbrush and removed the chip build-up from the inside of the folds, it concertinaed much better, although still not as good as the top cover, so i am swapping them.
I also found what might by evidence of a crash. Low on the front face of the left z-axis rail is what looks like a small gouge from a cutter. Both the running edges of the rail appear perfect, so I'll take a stone to that gouge just to ensure that it won't foul the carriage. The gouge corresponds to an aberration on the way cover. How a cutter gouged the rail without actually puncturing the cover is beyond me. I know that prior to rebuild the spindle suffered from high G vibrations, and crashes are a major cause of ceramic bearing failure, so it wouldn't surprise me.
That spindle rebuild could also explain the minor coolant loss. I'll extract a few cc from the chiller and confirm that it mixes with distilled water ok. The chiller only holds 2G, and can't be more than a pint or so low. I'll likely just top it with distilled water. Water soluble coolant is likely glycol based for both its anti-corrosion and anti-freeze properties, and should be tolerant of a few percent dilution.
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28 Jun 2017 15:00 #95107
by cncamateur
Replied by cncamateur on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
Hello All,
I have a 2002 benchman XT that I cant get running. As it stands now I get the sw running and a door lock error. The Intellitek SW seems to see the ATC and nextmove cards (I have two nextmove cards (PCI001-504) one errors (4 red leds, sw errors) the other seems to work, ATC errors when serial cable disconnected, but not when connected). I suspect I will see other troubles but I cant get past the door lock. The control card in the back of the unit is part number 22-8200-0054, I cant read the model or serial of the whole unit. my questions are:
1. is there an easy way to bypass the door lock, maybe using tp 30 and 31?
2. My machine has the 4th axis but its bypassed in bench-setup and also has the plug on the connector. There are two cablea coming out of the benchman that both fit the nexmove card, is the one connected to J18 on the board in the back of the unit the correct one for operation without a 4th axis? (this seems to be the 100 pin one)
3. Is there anything else I should look at to get it going, or a way to test the Nextmove card? Nothing seems to work unless I can home it, and it wont move without door lock. Spindle doesn't run. I have the manuals and the readme with the PCI card update, I have attached a photo of the rear wiring box.
Thanks
I have a 2002 benchman XT that I cant get running. As it stands now I get the sw running and a door lock error. The Intellitek SW seems to see the ATC and nextmove cards (I have two nextmove cards (PCI001-504) one errors (4 red leds, sw errors) the other seems to work, ATC errors when serial cable disconnected, but not when connected). I suspect I will see other troubles but I cant get past the door lock. The control card in the back of the unit is part number 22-8200-0054, I cant read the model or serial of the whole unit. my questions are:
1. is there an easy way to bypass the door lock, maybe using tp 30 and 31?
2. My machine has the 4th axis but its bypassed in bench-setup and also has the plug on the connector. There are two cablea coming out of the benchman that both fit the nexmove card, is the one connected to J18 on the board in the back of the unit the correct one for operation without a 4th axis? (this seems to be the 100 pin one)
3. Is there anything else I should look at to get it going, or a way to test the Nextmove card? Nothing seems to work unless I can home it, and it wont move without door lock. Spindle doesn't run. I have the manuals and the readme with the PCI card update, I have attached a photo of the rear wiring box.
Thanks
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28 Jun 2017 16:34 #95112
by x-Intelitek Engineer
Replied by x-Intelitek Engineer on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
Is your door lock error an indication in the s/w that the door is/is not locked or is your door always physically locked?
Due to safety concerns, I cannot advise you how to bypass the door lock or it's signals but it is a simple circuit.
I can't post the entire board schematic without Intelitek's permission, but I have attached the relevant Door Lock section.
J18 is the main Nextmove connection.
J18-86 is the signal from Nextmove to lock the door
J18-44 is the signal to Nextmove that the door is locked
J18-93 is the signal to Nextmove that the door is open
The software won't allow movement or spindle while errors are present.
You need to get that red box in the lower right off.
Let me know if I can help in any other way.
Don
Due to safety concerns, I cannot advise you how to bypass the door lock or it's signals but it is a simple circuit.
I can't post the entire board schematic without Intelitek's permission, but I have attached the relevant Door Lock section.
J18 is the main Nextmove connection.
J18-86 is the signal from Nextmove to lock the door
J18-44 is the signal to Nextmove that the door is locked
J18-93 is the signal to Nextmove that the door is open
The software won't allow movement or spindle while errors are present.
You need to get that red box in the lower right off.
Let me know if I can help in any other way.
Don
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28 Jun 2017 16:38 #95113
by x-Intelitek Engineer
Replied by x-Intelitek Engineer on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
I meant to add this drawing to the last post.
It is the "block diagram" on which the machine is based.
I created it during development of the machine, but it may not be 100% accurate to what is present in your machine.
Regards
Don
It is the "block diagram" on which the machine is based.
I created it during development of the machine, but it may not be 100% accurate to what is present in your machine.
Regards
Don
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28 Jun 2017 18:55 #95134
by cncamateur
Replied by cncamateur on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
The drawings are great, it looks to me like the block diagram is just like my machine, I don't have the CAN connection. I got past the door and now I have no errors on the screen, but nothing moves. When I try to jog I can hear relays clicking, but no movement. The work light also doesn't work from the SW control, but if I push the button on the relay, it goes on. On the next move card, one of the LEDs, I think its S1 id blinking green, the other is blinking red. When I hit the home button, it says on the screen that the Z axis is at a limit. I can hear the relay when I try to jog any axis. I really appreciate the help.
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28 Jun 2017 19:58 #95147
by x-Intelitek Engineer
Replied by x-Intelitek Engineer on topic Light Machine Corp. Benchman XTr (retrofit)
I don't remember if the s/w shows the limit status.
Is there a z limit display before you try to home?
Try jogging the z-axis to the center of the axis and then try to home.
If it can't be jogged, then remove the z-axis motor cover, remove the z-axis brake and manually push it to the center of the axis and then try to home.
Is there a z limit display before you try to home?
Try jogging the z-axis to the center of the axis and then try to home.
If it can't be jogged, then remove the z-axis motor cover, remove the z-axis brake and manually push it to the center of the axis and then try to home.
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