First Time Help

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02 Jul 2011 01:30 - 13 Jun 2014 20:49 #11052 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic Re:First Time Help
Try this again

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Last edit: 13 Jun 2014 20:49 by Todd Zuercher.

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02 Jul 2011 01:32 - 13 Jun 2014 20:48 #11053 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic Re:First Time Help
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Last edit: 13 Jun 2014 20:48 by Todd Zuercher.

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02 Jul 2011 01:34 #11054 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic Re:First Time Help
Here is a pic of some carving that shows the problem.

There is just a little to much wobble for my liking. Problem is it is just to much mass for to small of a motor, on an already marginal drive train.
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02 Jul 2011 02:06 - 02 Jul 2011 02:08 #11057 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Re:First Time Help
That's quite an interesting machine.

The way we normally advise people to use EMC2 is to use dumb drives and bring the PID loop inside the software. You have a fairly advanced PID controller with feed-forward and programmable limits. However, the big difference is that you can use Halscope to see exactly what is going on in the software, which makes tuning easier.

Step-direction servo drives are a bodge to allow simple digital outputs like parallel ports run servos.

I think EMC2 can run that machine a lot better. However I don't think it can do it in a short timescale. If you are interested then I suggest setting up a test system and experimenting.

What motors and drives are you using?

One very simple improvement, if the drives allow it, would be to switch to quadrature input rather than step/dir. It might even help with the tuning. (through indirect effects)

EMC2 has a huge range of supported hardware. Personally I rather like the Mesa 8i20 which is a 2kW brushless servo drive that takes angle/current commands in digital form direct from EMC2.
Last edit: 02 Jul 2011 02:08 by andypugh.

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02 Jul 2011 02:09 #11058 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic Re:First Time Help
A large part of the reason I had been running these drives at a higher resolution was to try to help with the tune. I seemed to be able to get smoother accelerations in hi res then I was seeing in the low res. This might not have been the case with a better tuning. The drives are Teknic SST-1500-ALWs with matching Teknic BLDC motors. The axis that has given me the most fits is the Y. It is currently set to 1000 steps/rev, on a helical rack and pinion drive (pinion is about 2" dia) with belt reduction. that ends up with about 1800 steps/inch. The drive is capable of steps/rev settings at 500,1000,2000,4000 or 8000. What I think it really needs is about double the gear reduction

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02 Jul 2011 02:31 #11059 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Re:First Time Help
Todd Zuercher wrote:

The drives are Teknic SST-1500-ALWs

Google is drawing a blank on that, do you have a spec?

It is currently set to 1000 steps/rev, on a helical rack and pinion drive (pinion is about 2" dia) with belt reduction. that ends up with about 1800 steps/inch

There is a likely mismatch there, I suspect that the rack backlash is greater than the position resolution. Where is the feedback? If it is an encoder on the motor then that's OK. But if it is a linear encoder on the axis then the disparity will be important.

However, that carving looks to have problems mainly on the Z.

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02 Jul 2011 10:59 - 02 Jul 2011 11:16 #11065 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic Re:First Time Help
The feedback is just the encoders on the motors.
The drive is a discontinued model but its specs shouldn't be that different from the superseding models.

Here is a link to the motor specs
www.teknic.com/files/product_info/3462_V1.3.pdf

after a bit of grubbing the net here is what I could find for the drive
www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?at...=114568&d=1284412755
Last edit: 02 Jul 2011 11:16 by Todd Zuercher.

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02 Jul 2011 11:46 #11068 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Re:First Time Help
Page 21 here:
www.teknic.com/files/downloads/Teknic_SS...em_Manual_Rev3.8.pdf
Indicates that the drives can be used as analogue servo drives using +/-10V signals to command velocity or torque.

However, it is not guaranteed that that would make things much better, and it would mean buying different hardware and probably quite a lot of machine downtime.

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02 Jul 2011 12:30 #11069 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic Re:First Time Help
I know.
I think my best option is to spend some time properly tuning the drives. (time to boot back to win98 ick)

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11 Jul 2011 12:32 #11392 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Re:First Time Help
So, any update on how this is going?

I am thinking of submitting the driver to the main project, and if I do that I think I would like to include a "reset" function like the parallel port has, which allows twice the step rate (it was originally called "doublestep").
The manufacturer didn't want to lend me a card to develop on (which I find disappointing)
If I do add this function, would you be willing to test it?

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