Weiler E30 Lathe retrofit?
06 Jul 2021 21:30 #213899
by vmihalca
Weiler E30 Lathe retrofit? was created by vmihalca
Hello,
My dream of having a weiler e30 lathe has come true! It was built in 1993, and it has Sinumerik 805D.
The monitor seems faulty, keeps flickering, I was able to move the Z axis, X axis has an error and I was not able to get rid of that error.
I asked for a replacement monitor and since its a rare part, I got an offer with 1200 eur for a 6 inch monitor.
I have considered replacing the control of this lathe with linuxcnc, but I am not sure what functionalities I will loose, such as: teach in functionalities, re-threading, and other features that even a 28 years old controller has.
I don't have any experience with professional controllers, I have another milling machine that runs linuxcnc.. but I don't know what I'm missing.
Any advices, opinions are highly appreciated.
My dream of having a weiler e30 lathe has come true! It was built in 1993, and it has Sinumerik 805D.
The monitor seems faulty, keeps flickering, I was able to move the Z axis, X axis has an error and I was not able to get rid of that error.
I asked for a replacement monitor and since its a rare part, I got an offer with 1200 eur for a 6 inch monitor.
I have considered replacing the control of this lathe with linuxcnc, but I am not sure what functionalities I will loose, such as: teach in functionalities, re-threading, and other features that even a 28 years old controller has.
I don't have any experience with professional controllers, I have another milling machine that runs linuxcnc.. but I don't know what I'm missing.
Any advices, opinions are highly appreciated.
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06 Jul 2021 21:36 #213902
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Weiler E30 Lathe retrofit?
Check the monitor wiring, find where it is connected to the PC/controller and unplug to check the port used, it should be a standard DB15 or DB9, DB9 can not be found but DB15 can be found and even a lot of TFT monitors have them, just a bit older, like 10 years or so.
And just in case it ends up having a composite out (some kind of coaxial cable) or 3 of them in case of coulor monitors, there are still some older monitors with such inputs but harder to find.
Either way, nothing more than 100 Euro.
And just in case it ends up having a composite out (some kind of coaxial cable) or 3 of them in case of coulor monitors, there are still some older monitors with such inputs but harder to find.
Either way, nothing more than 100 Euro.
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06 Jul 2021 21:47 #213904
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Weiler E30 Lathe retrofit?
I have used a Weiler lathe, converted to LinuxCNC. I am not sure what model.
I made some changes to the "carousel" toolchanger HAL component specifically for the Weiler changer. (strobe and parity pins)
You will lose teach-in, I am afraid. But might gain other things (such as my lathe macros
LinuxCNC can be used for re-threading, though it is a little fiddly. I am curious how it is handled in the Sinumerik?
I made some changes to the "carousel" toolchanger HAL component specifically for the Weiler changer. (strobe and parity pins)
You will lose teach-in, I am afraid. But might gain other things (such as my lathe macros
LinuxCNC can be used for re-threading, though it is a little fiddly. I am curious how it is handled in the Sinumerik?
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07 Jul 2021 06:16 #213940
by anfänger
Replied by anfänger on topic Weiler E30 Lathe retrofit?
A retrofit with LinuxCNC and a sinumerik is quite straight forward, cause the sinumerik is well documented. If you are able to read the parameters and maybe the logic (should be possible on some later versions)
I did it for a mill. Kept all the connectors just swapped the control for some Mesa boards and a pc
I did it for a mill. Kept all the connectors just swapped the control for some Mesa boards and a pc
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09 Jul 2021 08:09 #214066
by vmihalca
Replied by vmihalca on topic Weiler E30 Lathe retrofit?
The motors are 1000ppr and the 28 years old drivers are quite noisy, the motors are whining quite loud.
I am thinking whether to keep them or replace them with some Delta servos with absolute encoders and get rid of the limit switches.
Even though I've worked quite a bit with linuxcnc, I don't know if I can achieve the following functionalities:
1. If I keep the current drives and motors and I just replace the controller, I wonder how should I sort out homing for Z. Right now there is a cam mounted on the 1/3 of the bed lenght towards the chuck. The Z axis can pass over that cam and still can travel about 150mm towards the chuck. Can I home an axis in the middle of its travel? Also the tailstock has a cam for another switch, and if the tailstock is closer to the chuck, it will act like a positive soft limit or smth.
2. If use the lathe in manual mode, I can jog the axes using the mpg handwheels, but if I turn on the spindle, can I do constant surface speed when facing? Is there a way to accelerate the spindle when jogging towards X-?
3. It has a joystick for feeding and rapid traverse on Z and X axes, in manual mode, how could I use those, should I link them to Jog inputs? Also is there a way to accelerate the spindle when jogging towards X-?
This is all I have in mind so far..
I am thinking whether to keep them or replace them with some Delta servos with absolute encoders and get rid of the limit switches.
Even though I've worked quite a bit with linuxcnc, I don't know if I can achieve the following functionalities:
1. If I keep the current drives and motors and I just replace the controller, I wonder how should I sort out homing for Z. Right now there is a cam mounted on the 1/3 of the bed lenght towards the chuck. The Z axis can pass over that cam and still can travel about 150mm towards the chuck. Can I home an axis in the middle of its travel? Also the tailstock has a cam for another switch, and if the tailstock is closer to the chuck, it will act like a positive soft limit or smth.
2. If use the lathe in manual mode, I can jog the axes using the mpg handwheels, but if I turn on the spindle, can I do constant surface speed when facing? Is there a way to accelerate the spindle when jogging towards X-?
3. It has a joystick for feeding and rapid traverse on Z and X axes, in manual mode, how could I use those, should I link them to Jog inputs? Also is there a way to accelerate the spindle when jogging towards X-?
This is all I have in mind so far..
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09 Jul 2021 12:08 #214086
by andypugh
Yes, no problem. In fact that should work with a standard setup, if the switch is closed it will move towards the tailstock until the swith releases, and call that home. If the switch is open it will move towards the chick until the switch closes, then back off. Set HOME_SEARCH_VEL negative and HOME_LATCH_VEL positionve to configure this.
I think that can only be a hard stop, but it's a good feature.
Yes, that can be configured to work for jogging, see (2) for SFF comments.
Replied by andypugh on topic Weiler E30 Lathe retrofit?
1. If I keep the current drives and motors and I just replace the controller, I wonder how should I sort out homing for Z. Right now there is a cam mounted on the 1/3 of the bed lenght towards the chuck. The Z axis can pass over that cam and still can travel about 150mm towards the chuck. Can I home an axis in the middle of its travel?
Yes, no problem. In fact that should work with a standard setup, if the switch is closed it will move towards the tailstock until the swith releases, and call that home. If the switch is open it will move towards the chick until the switch closes, then back off. Set HOME_SEARCH_VEL negative and HOME_LATCH_VEL positionve to configure this.
Also the tailstock has a cam for another switch, and if the tailstock is closer to the chuck, it will act like a positive soft limit or smth.
I think that can only be a hard stop, but it's a good feature.
If you start the spindle from MDI with the constant-surface-speed G-codes then this will work with jogging too.2. If use the lathe in manual mode, I can jog the axes using the mpg handwheels, but if I turn on the spindle, can I do constant surface speed when facing? Is there a way to accelerate the spindle when jogging towards X-?
3. It has a joystick for feeding and rapid traverse on Z and X axes, in manual mode, how could I use those, should I link them to Jog inputs? Also is there a way to accelerate the spindle when jogging towards X-?
Yes, that can be configured to work for jogging, see (2) for SFF comments.
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12 Jul 2021 06:30 #214363
by vmihalca
Replied by vmihalca on topic Weiler E30 Lathe retrofit?
Regarding homing, I don't think I like the idea of homing against the tailstock switch. I would prefer homing against the middle travel switch. But that would mean jogging the machine before its homed so that I take it close to that switch, then start the homing for Z.
Right now on my mill, I cannot jog when its not homed.
Regarding constant surface speed, you mean starting the spindle in MDI then switching back to manual so that I can jog using the handwheels and also take advantage of constant surface speed?
I have been thinking about re-threading and how it could be done.
I know the threading starts when it receives the index pulse from the spindle encoder, so I was thinking if with a custom built UI and some python logic it could be simplified to work like this:
1. with the part to be re-threaded clamped in the chuck, in manual mode, move the tip of the cutter into the thread groove, somewhere in the thread. This should somehow correlate with the thread pitch and the angle of the spindle relative to index pulse.
2. back off the threading tool, move to the start of the thread, on a UI, save that Z coordinate as start, move it to the end of the thread, save that Z coordinate as end
3. Backoff in front of the thread where the starting should be, then start the cycle with the pre-filled values.
I wonder if this would be achievable from a linuxcnc library perspective.
Right now on my mill, I cannot jog when its not homed.
Regarding constant surface speed, you mean starting the spindle in MDI then switching back to manual so that I can jog using the handwheels and also take advantage of constant surface speed?
I have been thinking about re-threading and how it could be done.
I know the threading starts when it receives the index pulse from the spindle encoder, so I was thinking if with a custom built UI and some python logic it could be simplified to work like this:
1. with the part to be re-threaded clamped in the chuck, in manual mode, move the tip of the cutter into the thread groove, somewhere in the thread. This should somehow correlate with the thread pitch and the angle of the spindle relative to index pulse.
2. back off the threading tool, move to the start of the thread, on a UI, save that Z coordinate as start, move it to the end of the thread, save that Z coordinate as end
3. Backoff in front of the thread where the starting should be, then start the cycle with the pre-filled values.
I wonder if this would be achievable from a linuxcnc library perspective.
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12 Jul 2021 08:44 #214373
by andypugh
Jogging before homing is a config thing, it can be enabled.
How does the middle-travel switch work? If it is on for half the travel and off for the other half then you don't need to do anything special, the homing sequence will automatically move one way if the switch is on and the other way if it is off. (Set HOME_SEARCH_VELOCITY and HOME_LATCH_VELOCITY with the same sign, and with the sign that makes it move in the correct direction)
One way to do it is to start a threading pass and stop the spindle part-way through. You can then move the part in the chuck (either rotate it or slide it) until the tool and thread are in-phase. You can rotate the spindle by hand to check phasing, as shown in this YouTube video: (he starts the threading cycle with the spindle off, synchs and then starts the spindle)
You can adjust the thread phase by moving the starting Z. It feels like something that it should be possible to calculate from thread pitch and a known in-synch position.
If this was a very common operation, then I think that I would consider adding a dummy A-axis and adding the angle of that to the spindle.0.revs pin, so that the phase could be adjusted with a jogwheel. (This would need more thought, though, as A won't jog during a threading pass as the machine is in Auto mode. It might need to be an External Offset.
Replied by andypugh on topic Weiler E30 Lathe retrofit?
Regarding homing, I don't think I like the idea of homing against the tailstock switch. I would prefer homing against the middle travel switch. But that would mean jogging the machine before its homed so that I take it close to that switch, then start the homing for Z.
Right now on my mill, I cannot jog when its not homed.
Jogging before homing is a config thing, it can be enabled.
How does the middle-travel switch work? If it is on for half the travel and off for the other half then you don't need to do anything special, the homing sequence will automatically move one way if the switch is on and the other way if it is off. (Set HOME_SEARCH_VELOCITY and HOME_LATCH_VELOCITY with the same sign, and with the sign that makes it move in the correct direction)
Yes, exactly that. On my lathe I have a turn/push encoder button on the apron that chooses jog increment and switches to manual mode when pressed.Regarding constant surface speed, you mean starting the spindle in MDI then switching back to manual so that I can jog using the handwheels and also take advantage of constant surface speed?
I have been thinking about re-threading and how it could be done.
One way to do it is to start a threading pass and stop the spindle part-way through. You can then move the part in the chuck (either rotate it or slide it) until the tool and thread are in-phase. You can rotate the spindle by hand to check phasing, as shown in this YouTube video: (he starts the threading cycle with the spindle off, synchs and then starts the spindle)
You can adjust the thread phase by moving the starting Z. It feels like something that it should be possible to calculate from thread pitch and a known in-synch position.
If this was a very common operation, then I think that I would consider adding a dummy A-axis and adding the angle of that to the spindle.0.revs pin, so that the phase could be adjusted with a jogwheel. (This would need more thought, though, as A won't jog during a threading pass as the machine is in Auto mode. It might need to be an External Offset.
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13 Jul 2021 04:57 #214480
by vmihalca
Replied by vmihalca on topic Weiler E30 Lathe retrofit?
I saw linuxcnc now supports absolute encoders. If I decide to change the motors to some absolute encoders motors, I will get rid of homing and I will have the performance of 2020 instead of 1990. What I don't know is how does the linuxcnc knows the coordinates of the machine? The driver will make the tunning with the servomotor, but does it need pid tunning from linuxcnc too? When the machine stops, will linuxcnc just remember the last coordinates then at restart will load those coordinates again? It won't be the case for me, but what happens if the screw gets moved while linuxcnc is off? How will linuxcnc know about that at the next restart?
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13 Jul 2021 06:46 #214496
by Aciera
Replied by Aciera on topic Weiler E30 Lathe retrofit?
For this you don't need absolute encoders at all you could just use incremental encoders and save the coordinates at shutdown. I'm not sure what happens if linuxcnc is not properly closed though.will linuxcnc just remember the last coordinates then at restart will load those coordinates again?
Absolute encoders require an energy source so they record any motion even if the machine is switched off, mostly in the form of a battery or supercap but there are also models now that can generate their own power. If the power to the encoder is lost the positional data in the encoder is lost as well and the machine has to be homed again.what happens if the screw gets moved while linuxcnc is off?
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