Please Help - How to Configure a 5 Axis Head-Head

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20 Jul 2023 02:37 - 20 Jul 2023 02:43 #275851 by IronManDylan
Hmmmm yeah I didn't think about the two rotational axis being in line and fusion not knowing which one to move...  It would be nice if F360 would let you select which axis you want to move for 6 axis milling.  I guess 6 axis milling is pretty niche though. Which forum are you suggesting I post in, autodesk's website or the F360 sub-forum on the LCNC website?  Autodesk's forum can be pretty sparse when it comes to getting a response it can seem... 

Here's another two ideas that comes to mind though. If I am just using the 4th axis for indexing, and not simultaneous stuff, I could use g54,g55,g56... like you suggested.  Or, I could manually place a line of gcode to set the 4th at the desired location at the beginning of the gcode (or even use MDI honestly).

Or, if I am using it simultaneously with the head, instead of having a different LCNC set up, I can have a different machine set up in F360, and in that set up just have one head axis available for use.  So in other words, the head joints are B and C (thats what bridgemill calls them), so in this Fusion Machine Builder set up, I would select all of the B and C axis to operate as the C axis (don't set a B axis at all), then set the A axis as the 4th/table axis.  Then fusion will be required to pick the correct axis as that is the only options. And then the gcode outputted to the C axis shoulddd work in TCP mode, and the code sent to the A axis should not be and should just be your normal position and angle code operating without reverse kinematics.  

At least that is what I would think would happen.  One very important question is wether bridgemill can handle this.  Like what will it do when it gets position data for an A axis that isn't in its kinematic model? Do you have any idea what it will do or how to figure this out? I guess I could send bridgemill some test gcode and watch vismach, but there won't be any visualizer for the 4th axis in the vismach setup so it will be hard to gauge...

What do you think about all this? 
Last edit: 20 Jul 2023 02:43 by IronManDylan.

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20 Jul 2023 11:34 #275889 by spumco

What do you think about all this? 
 


I think you'll be fine - eventually.  Your setup will, I suspect, take a fair amount of time to get it working the way you want, especially since you don't have a ton of experience with your 'dream machine' - and, frankly, neither do most people.

Regarding the 'forum' I was referring to the Autodesk forum, not here in LCNC-ville.  Yes, I've seen some posts go unanswered, but I've also had pretty good success with my own questions or searching there.

 

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22 Jul 2023 16:44 - 22 Jul 2023 16:54 #276001 by IronManDylan
Okay, I spent all day yesterday messing with Fusion 360 Machine Builder and the post processor.  I got almost everything working how I want it.  The head-head style is working in Fusion as well as seems to be doing what I want it to on Vismach.  One interesting note about switching the axis up to work with Bridgemill, is that, raising to a safe Z height is more dangerous now, because the Z axis is where you typically have a Y axis. I think I could modify the post processor to address some of this though. I got the 4th axis working how I want it in fusion machine builder as a separate machine. But, right now I am having two issues with the 4th axis that I could use help fixing though. 

The first one seems to be a post issue. I have programmed a simple contour on a semi circle with a 2 inch diameter.  The tool should come in, hold its position, and turn the part about 220 degrees with the 4th axis, then retract.  Instead what I am getting is nearly 200 lines of code in which the Z and X axis are moving by as much as 20 inches, which makes zero sense. A full circumference of that circle isn't even 20 inches...

The second forth axis issue is, I am posting the 4th axis (table axis) as the A axis.  This is because the Bridgemill uses B and C as the head axis/joints.  When I try posting 4th axis code to bridgemill I get the error "bad character 'a' used".  I need to figure out how to add another axis to the bridgemill.  Shouldn't be too hard as the axis shouldn't require reverse kinematics if the WCS is at the center of rotation of the A. But I need it to not throw a flag and also be able to program steps/rev and acceleration and stuff like that. Does anyone know how to add an axis to Axis GUI?

Lastly, if anyone has any documentation on how to get LCNC talking nicely with the Mesa boards, I could use that information as well.  Obviously I have the Mesa manuals, but if there is anything specific to LCNC I should look at feel free to point me that direction please.  The Mesa boards arrived yesterday and I am going to go get them installed in their box right now. 

Thank you for your help.
Last edit: 22 Jul 2023 16:54 by IronManDylan.

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22 Jul 2023 18:50 #276010 by Aciera

When I try posting 4th axis code to bridgemill I get the error "bad character 'a' used".  I need to figure out how to add another axis to the bridgemill.  Shouldn't be too hard as the axis shouldn't require reverse kinematics if the WCS is at the center of rotation of the A. But I need it to not throw a flag and also be able to program steps/rev and acceleration and stuff like that. Does anyone know how to add an axis to Axis GUI?

Looking at /src/emc/kinematics/5axiskins.c it seems that you should be able to just add an A axis in the ini:
    // optional letters (specify with coordinates module parameter)
    P.a = (JA != -1)? pos->a : 0;

So try to alter these lines in your bridgemill ini file:
[DISPLAY]
         GEOMETRY = XYZCBAW
[TRAJ]
         COORDINATES = XYZABCWY

[KINS]
 JOINTS = 8
 KINEMATICS = 5axiskins coordinates=xyzabcwy
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22 Jul 2023 19:13 #276012 by Aciera
If you don't shy away from matrix math then this documentation may help you to derive a custom kinematic (Identity, TCP and Tool) for your particular machine: 
 

File Attachment:

File Name: XYZABC_TRS...l.tar.gz
File Size:324 KB


Note: this is  for a head-head machine with a work side C-rotary table using a rotating-nutating head so your machine is actually a simpler case in that all your rotation matrices will be of the simple form. You can ignore the experimental Tilted Work Plane section at the end.
If you are keen to try building your own I would suggest to install a jupyter and ipython and I can send you the jupyter notebook of the above example so you don't have start from scratch.
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23 Jul 2023 19:22 - 23 Jul 2023 19:33 #276101 by IronManDylan
Aciera:
I tried altering the ini file as you suggested.  There were a few places where I added to the xyzabcw config that weren't where you suggested.  As well as moved a few other things around in the axis configuration file, mostly with setting up the joints and axis.  But I ended up getting an error when I tried to launch that configuration. I have attached a picture of the error below as well as the full ini file.  Note: I did not add the first line of code you specified as I did not know where in the initiation file to place it, perhaps this is the issue. 

I do not consider myself a shy person, but I also have been working on this machine for so long and really just want to see it running right now if thats possible, even if it is a little hacked together.  I have plans to build a more substantial machine in the future and would like to get deeper into writing kinematics then. 


Wiring issues:
I have most of the board wired up.  I have 5 of the 6 axis wired into the 7I96S.  Have all my sensor wired into the inputs of the 7I96S (and written down so I know what goes where). I ordered the wrong cable to attach the 7I96S to the 7I85S so will get a replacement on Monday.  

I do not know where to wire in the last axis into the 7I85S.  The manual on this is very sparse. Its states "Note that actual signal functions depend on FPGA configuration" but gives no data on the different config or how to change the config. I need to know how to change the output of these pins to Step/dir and which pins are the ones I need to use.  Also, I assume something needs to be done to the config to make it talk nicely to the 7I96S.  Note: the only thing that I am plugging into the 7I85S is one stepper driver. 

Lastly, I need to know how to wire my Huanyang VFD into the 7I96S. First off, I have set my VFD to receive between 1-5 volts input for spindle speed control (factory setting is supposed to be 0-10v but since 7I96S is a 5v board I figured this needed to be modified) by adjusting parameter PD070 according to my manual.  From my last attempt at getting everything running I had the FOR (forward run pin), VI (analog frequency reference input), and ACM (GND) pins of the VFD wired into 5v, spindle output, and GND of my old board respectively. However, the 7I96S manual is being characteristically vague and only provides spindle , spindle out, spindle - as descriptors for the pins.  I can take a guess on these and see how they work, but does anyone know how this should be wired? Also, there is a jumper that needs to be adjusted to change speed control from the onboard potentiometer of the VFD to the inputs I referenced, so I am aware of that. 


Thank you. 
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Last edit: 23 Jul 2023 19:33 by IronManDylan.

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23 Jul 2023 20:33 - 23 Jul 2023 20:40 #276108 by PCW
With 7i96s_7i85d.pin firmware, stepgens 0..4 are on the 7I96s
and stepgens 5..8 are on the 7I85S stepgen outputs 0..3

You can verify this with:

mesaflash --device 7i96s --addr 10.10.10.10 --dbname3 7i85s --readhmid


The spindle connections for a typical VFD are:

VFD +10V --> 7I96S SPIN+
VFD ANALOG_IN --> 7I96S SPINOUT
VFD ANALOG_COMMON --> 7I96S SPIN-

The 7I96S basically replaces the potentiometer
POT TOP = SPIN+
POT WIPER = SPINOUT
BOT BOTTOM = SPIN-
Digital pins like FWD and REV are driven by 7I96S SSR outputs
Last edit: 23 Jul 2023 20:40 by PCW.
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23 Jul 2023 23:37 #276117 by IronManDylan
PCW

About the VFD. Okay that makes sense I’ll wire that. Plugging 10v into the 5v mesa won’t fry anything right? 

About the 7I85S, I’m confused. Are you saying that drivers 5-8 come out of the 7i85s? But how do I know which pins are the step/dir pins for motor 5? There’s like 2 dozen pins on the 7i85s and the manual doesn’t list which pin are step and dir. It looks like mesaflash is software I need to download on my computer? I’ll looks into this thing evening when I have a moment. Can I see what pins are step/dir using this software? Sorry, very new to Mesa boards. 

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24 Jul 2023 01:58 #276119 by PCW
On the VFD there is no connection between the 7I96S 5V supply
and the spindle connections. The 7I96S SPIN+ to SPIN- voltage
can be from 5V to 20V.

Mesaflash is included with LinuxCNC distributions, though depending
on the specific distribution it may need to be updated.

Here is the result of the suggested mesaflash command:

 

File Attachment:

File Name: 7i96s_7i85sd.txt
File Size:7 KB



 
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24 Jul 2023 06:29 #276128 by Aciera

I tried altering the ini file as you suggested.  There were a few places where I added to the xyzabcw config that weren't where you suggested.  As well as moved a few other things around in the axis configuration file, mostly with setting up the joints and axis.  But I ended up getting an error when I tried to launch that configuration. I have attached a picture of the error below as well as the full ini file.  Note: I did not add the first line of code you specified as I did not know where in the initiation file to place it, perhaps this is the issue. 

- The first line of code  I posted is from the kinematic file indicating that an A axis can be added, so this is purely informative.
- Note that in the hal and ini files any line starting with a '#' is a comment.
- The error in your screenshot indicates that a remap file was not found. Not sure as to why that happened but starting linuxcnc from the terminal ($ linuxcnc) may give you more information in the form of terminal output.

Below is a modified ini file for the bridgemill simulation that adds an A-axis as tested on my system (using master version but should also work in 2.9):

Warning: Spoiler!
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