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I doubt it. It is a hard question to answer without seeing the settings for both sides. The B3 manual is a very lengthy one. I would start with ensuring the electronic gear ratios are set correctly and that the values match on both LCNC and the drive.

I am not too familiar with Delta products to be honest.

I would check that the motor type settings are correct, then EGR values. If the results are the same, then you may need to send a tech support ticket to Delta with the drive model and motor model with encoder type.

If you are running the motors unconnected to LCNC and the results are drawn from the Delta tuning software then I suspect the motor/drive settings are not correct. PPR for inc encoders or bit specs for abs encoders must be set correctly. Also verify the drive/motor current is compatible. I assume these have no brakes on the motors that are still engaged.

Hi all
Meanwhile I made 3 fresh installs:
debian 10 (buster), LCNC V 2.8.4: manual-toolchange WORKS
debian 12 (bookworm), LCNC V 2.9.1: manual-toolchange NOT working
debian 12 (bookworm), LCNC V 2.9.2: manual-toolchange NOT working

can't believe I am the only one having this problem
greez
chris

Hi, brother. pippin88
Do you have a problem that you can't find a solution for?

Hey mate sorry to bother you and also sorry for bumping the old thread.

I'm just wondering where we get this vertical ui? even if its out of date I would still like to use it, I looked on the github and found it there but under where the download should be it says (Project URL: Included with QtPyVCP)

As far as I can tell I have QtPyVCP as regular probe basic is installed and working fine, but when I flip the monitor its defiantly not working as intented.

Thanks again for the help mate

I think there is a path issue in line 14 looking for lcec_conf

Is there any step by step guide how to make nvem board to work?

Edit :
No worries, I've found one on YouTube. It's a shame that there is no official guide on linuxcnc wiki. 

Donb9261 wrote:

Of course.

Well that is simple yet complex to explain. First, is the following error in the drive a match to the one derived in LCNC. The TP is in the drive so LCNC is not the ideal place to see the true FE.

In position mode, the controller should only need to send position commands as needed. It does not need to even know whether the following error exists given the actual position is dynamically controlled locally in the drive. Now, there are considerations in excess error. Time delay of the cyclic updates. Properly sized servo motors for the load(this is vital to ensure you have a 125% power to load ratio - see final note below), and the FF forward parameters which will ensure enough torque is available to maintain P/T or velocity until the loop position becomes zero. The position control loop receives a command to move 1" at 10 IPM. It will then take that 1" and use the Delta to start positioning the servo via the position FB loop to drive the motor from 1" to zero. The error is calculated within the Delta. The job of the Position loop is to make it to zero in the T requested. If it sees that the T is being stretched it will request more torque to compensate and if to early it will remove torque to comp that. The issue can be in many cases that the LI or load inertia is too great in both ACC/DEC states and continuous travel.

Most higher level drives have several params that adjust the servo response time, power levels, and FF(Aka Loop Gain). These drives also have dynamic auto tuning and if the input calcs for your inertial loads are accurately calculated will allow the auto tuner to account for the calculated load while tuning for you. But, that is the caveat. You must ensure that you have properly calculated the true inertial load of your axis.

Final Note -

The axis has a load characteristic before it actually starts cutting. Cutting requires additional torque to ensure the loop is maintained else you may have a perfectly tuned machine and fined out later while milling a slot that the error is pretty wide and may even see issues with blending or ovular interpolations. It is key to ensure that you know the static load(unloaded machine not cutting) and the dynamic load(machine moving the static while cutting adding a variable load). The math can be a bit much but there are many calcs out there in the ether to help. Once you know that value of what is specifically required, as a rule engineers like myself add 10-25% additional motor KW to ensure that the motion can maintain P/T and make targets without under shoot or overshoot and minimize oscillations at idle.

So if my calc says I need .75kw to handle S and D loads, then I install a 1kw servo. Keep my FF low, and use minor filter adjustments to cancel out ACC/DEC response at higher V.

Following error is more a measure of the servo response not the command response of the controller if in ECAT mode. ECAT can be used in closed loop of course, but that is redundant and increases chances of issues of imbalance of power. ECAT wants to separate concerns. Controller decides where the servo should go, tells the servo go here, the servo does it's job and next. If the servo has an issue, it has its' own ability to stop before disaster. Like I said, ECAT is better at point and shoot than have a controller try to manage everything. That would be like racing a Ferrari while hooked to a tow truck. It works, but the tow truck(controller) is never going to be a Ferrari(servo).

Hope that helps.

PS - Closed loop stepper drives and motors are not Ferrari's. More like a Lota. Lol. But, you can put a spoiler on a Lota and it looks pretty cool.


 

Hello gentelmen,

it is very interesting reading over this topic around timing and control modes etc... but I can strongly recommend to not calculate servo powerrate to power factor of servo drive. I can recommend to calculate torque or intertia mass(which are in the end torque) which are in the end current...but no every servo drivers running at same voltage and there schould be difference finally at power output, which make a sense for final user... old japanesse servos running on low voltage but high current... nowday are solutions different

I have talking about open servo solution with local Siemens 840D expert the he recommend me maximum 1/4 of motor as reserve for final solution... It is great compromise about final tunning and overoscillation factor...

regards

yeah, I patched the kernel of the board with preempt. Then ran the cyclitest, the longest delay without load is 180us.

So we think it can have a try.

Now I am trying to install the Debian bookworm. It takes long long long time to downlod related packages...

I can look for their experience. Thank u!

Sorry I missed the bit about the lathe axis.
Also regarding the enables.
This thread on cnczone maybe of use.
www.cnczone.com/forums/stepper-motors-dr...14207-schematic.html
Oh and comletely missed the bit about the 6040.

Geesh I'm having a bad day with my reading, writing & comprehension of Engrish. I would have edited the previous post but the editor is a real PITA. I really apologise for being such a dill.

• A
  • EN - enable - DB14 - shared with X enable
  • CW - dir - DB-03
  • CK - step - DB-02
  
  
• Z
  • EN - enable - DB-08
  • CW - dir - DB-06
  • CK - step - DB-07
• Y
  • EN - enable - DB-09
  • CW - dir - DB-05
  • CK - step - DB-04
• X
  • EN - enable - DB-14 - shared with A enable
  • CW - dir - - DB-17
  • CK - setp - DB-16

DB 10 - 11 - 12 -13 - 15 Inputs via opto couplers
DB 1 5v output marked as Motor

If I was wiring this, assuming a 3 axis mill with no rotary axis nor a slaved axis as in a gantry:
The enables for X Y Z I would not connect to the stepper motors, most simple machines use this method.
Connector A I would use for the spindle with PWM output on CK, CW for forward and EN for enable. Tho you could use CW for forward and EN for Reverse depending on the spindle itself.
Connector "MOTO" could be used for any needed output.

IMHO the naming convention for the connectors doesn't conform to the "defacto standard", Pins 2-9 for axis x-y-z-a. Honestly this looks like a poorly designed board. The 1N4007 after the 5v regulator with drop that voltage to 4.2 to 4.4 volts.
The 15v reg isn't really required if you were to supply the board with 8 to 9 volts. This would be a product I'd wouldn't be inclined t use. If you have it it should work, but you'll want to keep careful notes of the wiring.

Even the schematic isn't 100% clear What be be assumed to be resistor networks marked RN1 & RN2 are only shown as standard resistor. Generally I like to use buffers for at least all outputs, where as only the step & direction have buffers, the enables don't (which generally are controlling the same type of opto isolator on the stepper driver as the step & direction).

Not too usre if you are in the UK or US but if this is your first build I tend to opto for one of these
cnc4pc.com/c35s-breakout-board.html
I've got one at home I use for testing and found the docs, build quality & design quite good.

Sorry if I sound like a bit of a downer, but just some things I've noted.

/

If i draw the tool orientation vector lenght:10mm at each gcode line. Or at each known position.

Then i connect these tool orientation's at the top with a poly line.
Then create fillets inbetween the polylines? Then set tool orientation vector to touch the fillets?

Yes, that is what I'm thinking.

This image is from the preview of the paper linked above. The tool position is the curve in red and the tool orientation is the curve in blue. The blue curve would be the G2 continuous representation of the polyline that connects the green dots marked 'Knot of TA'.

 

Mind you, I have not really thought about what a particular machine's kinematic restriction will mean when using this approach. If we have a machine with only an A-rotary then we may not be able to orient the physical tool to the calculated (smoothed) 3D angles (ABC).

FWIW, I bought two different ones from Amazon so that I could return it if it doesn't work, however, the Startech AX99100 now appears to be "working" so that's good and it seems to have pretty decent performance.

The remaining (off topic) question is, how do I configure it? I appear to have DJK-01A BOB (which may also be called a "Tonsen 4 Aixs [SIC] Con[troller]" it's driving 4 TX14207 stepper motor driver cards, the fourth being to run a "lathe" unit and is "A."

I found this post: www.mycncuk.com/threads/6922-Tonsen-4-Axis-Controller-Bob which includes a schematic.

Is it as simple as CK = Step, and CW = direction. What about enable (is there a separate enable for Y/Z vs A/X)? Is there a way to control the spindle or is that purely from front panel?

That probably explains why my X-axis doesn't work since it's pin 16/17 not 2/3. But not the weird noises from the Y-axis.

Hello Don,
you seem like you are an expert in servos field, so I will try my luck with this question:

I have both delta B3-L and B3-Ethercat drives
B3-L (step-dir) are currently hooked up to my machine using mesa card 7i95t and they are tuned via delta software to practically zero following error when checking scope in delta software (except for some minor when starting and stopping. like 0.006mm on 5mm ball screw).
However I am unable to accomplish the same results on EtherCAT drives, even though I compared all parameters. The filters are all off or minimum, but i have approximately 12000PUU following error on EtherCAT drives even though the motors are running freely without any load - they are only on the test bench.
The only difference is load inertia ratio which is ~5 when on machine and 0 in case of unconnected motors.
Might it be, that unconnected motors are unable to be tuned properly?

I am learning. I wonder why you would use the 7I76 for the spindle motor control; would the 7I97T not be enough for your needs? Also, 7I76 uses step direction, meaning your spindle uses step direction, not PWM. I am trying to learn as much as possible before starting my build. Please share your thoughts