retrofit on EMCO PC turn 55

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13 Jun 2012 17:50 #20883 by andypugh
jrkeat wrote:

Out of curiosity, how does disassembly destroy the motor?

The pole-pieces act like a magnetic "keeper". Removing the (heavily magnetised) rotor can partially demagnetise it.
It will still work, but not as well.

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15 Jun 2012 15:03 #20959 by jrkeat
The original Emco 55's hardware includes hall sensors on the x and z shafts, firing once per roation. How do you think these were used in the original configuration, and should I try to use them?

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15 Jun 2012 15:19 - 15 Jun 2012 15:20 #20960 by andypugh
jrkeat wrote:

The original Emco 55's hardware includes hall sensors on the x and z shafts, firing once per roation. How do you think these were used in the original configuration, and should I try to use them?


They might well be used to add some extra accuracy to the homing process. (in the same way as you can use encoder index)

They may have been used to detect a stalled motor. You could probably do the same. Maybe by netting the step output to an encoder in counter mode, using the hall sensor to reset that encoder and flagging an error if the encoder gets higher than a threshold.
Last edit: 15 Jun 2012 15:20 by andypugh.

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15 Jun 2012 22:03 #20970 by chuck1024

The original Emco 55's hardware includes hall sensors on the x and z shafts, firing once per roation. How do you think these were used in the original configuration, and should I try to use them?


A very good question that I pondered for a while. I figured they were probably used to rotate the lead screw to a specific position after detecting the home switch. I chose to ignore them for the time being but I wonder if they could be used to improve homing accuracy. I suspect someone good with classic ladder programming could figure out how to do this and maybe I would investigate someday but that day has not come yet.

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15 Jun 2012 22:19 #20971 by andypugh
chuck1024 wrote:

A very good question that I pondered for a while. I figured they were probably used to rotate the lead screw to a specific position after detecting the home switch. I chose to ignore them for the time being but I wonder if they could be used to improve homing accuracy. I suspect someone good with classic ladder programming could figure out how to do this and maybe I would investigate someday but that day has not come yet.


In theory there is no need for CL:

www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config/ini...html#_home_use_index

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15 Jun 2012 22:33 #20972 by chuck1024
Wow, that looks like a perfect fit. I removed the sensors but I could put them back in. How much do you think it would improve the accuracy of the homing sequence? I have hardly used this machine since I did the conversion but my initial tests indicate the switches alone have a couple thou variation. I work around it by touching off tool 1 on the turret and all the other tools follow based on the tool table.

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15 Jun 2012 22:49 #20973 by andypugh
chuck1024 wrote:

Wow, that looks like a perfect fit. I removed the sensors but I could put them back in. How much do you think it would improve the accuracy of the homing sequence?.


In the case of an encoder index, rather a lot, as those are very sharp, typically in the 1/1000 rev range. I think a Hall sensor might be a little more variable, but even if it is as variable as the home switch it improves matters proportionally to the leadscrew pitch.

What I am not at all clear on is where in HAL you would connect that input. www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/motion.9.html suggests that it relies on the index-enable functionality of the encoder components. In a stepper system there are no encoders to which to net that input.

It might be that the way to get the function is to AND the home switch with the Hall sensor in HAL. There will be problems if the Hall sensor on range is less than the axis stopping distance. But it probably won't be.

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15 Jun 2012 23:23 #20974 by chuck1024
Perhaps the easiest solution is to wire the home switch and the proximity (index) sensor in series. Both home switches on the Emco are roller switches and the actuator is a ramp so they can over travel quite a bit. As you eluded to, if you over run the index pulse, things will go haywire. I think the home search speed is slow enough this would not happen though.

cs

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17 Jun 2012 06:59 #21028 by jrkeat
I got the lathe! Unfortunately, it was dropped along the way, but it seems like $100 will cure what at first seemed like terrible damage. The carraige had become detached. However, getting this re-attached amounts to just replacing $30 worth of retaining strips.

It turns out my motors are different from Chuck's. They are 3 phase NEMA 23 motors, VRDM 366/60, which are probably driven sinusiodally. I should be able to swap them right out, except for needing to drill a hole in the shaft for a retaining pin.

I spent about an hour trying to work through the stepper board. I didn't make much headway--it seems like every trace has at least one through hole. There's a 16-pin connector that somehow translates into up to 3 axes but is configured with 2 motor power boards, each with 6 transistors. This would probably yield its secrets in a few hours if I were disciplined about tracing it through and writing eveything down.

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17 Jun 2012 11:15 #21034 by andypugh
jrkeat wrote:

They are 3 phase NEMA 23 motors, VRDM 366/60, which are probably driven sinusiodally.

You can quite possibly drive those with a generic 3-phase motor drive.
Part of the alignment sequence for brushless servos can be a phase of open-loop drive, basically running the motor as a very low pole-count stepper.
It would all be a bit unusual, as you would have infinitely variable current control in software, for example.
A single Mesa 7i39 could probably drive both axes. Or perhaps not…

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