Brother TC-211
09 Sep 2014 19:35 - 09 Sep 2014 19:42 #50974
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Brother TC-211
Diagram Attached
Last edit: 09 Sep 2014 19:42 by andypugh.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mblaszkiewicz
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 241
- Thank you received: 5
14 Sep 2014 05:24 #51153
by mblaszkiewicz
Replied by mblaszkiewicz on topic Brother TC-211
Thanks Andy the machine now has a brake on the Z axis.
Next thing on the list of to do. Anyone have any idea on how to orient the spindle.
The spindle is actually a very large servo and does have a resolver that outputs to encoder signals.
I beleive its wired the same way as the other axis's and I wired it that way into the 7i77 card.
Also the machine homes very slowly. Any ideas on that would be great also.
Next thing on the list of to do. Anyone have any idea on how to orient the spindle.
The spindle is actually a very large servo and does have a resolver that outputs to encoder signals.
I beleive its wired the same way as the other axis's and I wired it that way into the 7i77 card.
Also the machine homes very slowly. Any ideas on that would be great also.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
14 Sep 2014 11:58 #51154
by cncbasher
Replied by cncbasher on topic Brother TC-211
homing speed as everything else is stored in your ini file
on a per axis basis ..see AXIS0 , AXIS 1 axis are in xyzabcuvw order starting at 0
see the homing section of the manual , is the machine running at correct speeds?
Orient is also covered in the manual , and the wiki , but we would need information , as to what is required
is the toolchanger it's self working or is that required also.if so how does it work , what connections have you made
do you want the whole machine configured and set up.
you seem to be having difficulty grasping what is required in general , so rather than drip feed every question
perhaps supply the information of the manual , and we can come up with a plan to accomplish a working machine
far quicker than question by question
as it can be a daunting task not only the hardware , but the configuration also
on a per axis basis ..see AXIS0 , AXIS 1 axis are in xyzabcuvw order starting at 0
see the homing section of the manual , is the machine running at correct speeds?
Orient is also covered in the manual , and the wiki , but we would need information , as to what is required
is the toolchanger it's self working or is that required also.if so how does it work , what connections have you made
do you want the whole machine configured and set up.
you seem to be having difficulty grasping what is required in general , so rather than drip feed every question
perhaps supply the information of the manual , and we can come up with a plan to accomplish a working machine
far quicker than question by question
as it can be a daunting task not only the hardware , but the configuration also
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mblaszkiewicz
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 241
- Thank you received: 5
14 Sep 2014 23:10 #51159
by mblaszkiewicz
Replied by mblaszkiewicz on topic Brother TC-211
I looked thru the manual for spindle orientation, didn't find it. I need the spindle orientation to do a manual tool change, as well as an auto tool change. I have not torn into the tool changer yet, I am more then willing to deal with a manual change. The wy my tool changer works like the video.
Spindle stops and orients
Z goes to origin
Z raises apx 7.5 inches abouve the home position
Tool changer rotates to new tool
z axis comes down on tool and locks in.
I haven't found any thing about locking or unlocking the pull stud. I believe its done when the z axis rises by itself.
Spindle stops and orients
Z goes to origin
Z raises apx 7.5 inches abouve the home position
Tool changer rotates to new tool
z axis comes down on tool and locks in.
I haven't found any thing about locking or unlocking the pull stud. I believe its done when the z axis rises by itself.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
14 Sep 2014 23:49 #51161
by cncbasher
Replied by cncbasher on topic Brother TC-211
Spindle orient uses the orient component www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/orient.9.html
also as mentioned the wiki wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SpindleOrientation
depending on the type of pull stud operation it's either pneumatic or electrically operated solenoid
also as mentioned the wiki wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SpindleOrientation
depending on the type of pull stud operation it's either pneumatic or electrically operated solenoid
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mblaszkiewicz
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 241
- Thank you received: 5
14 Sep 2014 23:55 #51162
by mblaszkiewicz
Replied by mblaszkiewicz on topic Brother TC-211
Ok tool automatical locks, still working on orienting the spindle.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mblaszkiewicz
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 241
- Thank you received: 5
15 Sep 2014 01:40 #51163
by mblaszkiewicz
Replied by mblaszkiewicz on topic Brother TC-211
Here are my newest hal files.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Philip Lydin
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mblaszkiewicz
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 241
- Thank you received: 5
15 Sep 2014 05:30 #51169
by mblaszkiewicz
Replied by mblaszkiewicz on topic Brother TC-211
I read thru both of the spindle orient links and I am totally lost. It looks like the 2nd is for a vfd, and the 1st..... well ... I just don't understand it. Any help would be great. and thanks again to everyone here for dealing with someone so Linux and electrically inept.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
15 Sep 2014 05:50 - 15 Sep 2014 06:21 #51170
by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Brother TC-211
Can you post the part of the manual that describes the spindle drive?
Often the orient function is built into the drive and only requires a orient command
and outputs a signal to indicate orient is complete
Often the orient function is built into the drive and only requires a orient command
and outputs a signal to indicate orient is complete
Last edit: 15 Sep 2014 06:21 by PCW.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
15 Sep 2014 07:10 #51172
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Brother TC-211
I haven't configured spindle orientation on my mill, mainly because I don't have a toolchanger and I probably won't be fitting one. (I do have a pneumatic pull-stud, though, which is far more fun than a drawbar)
But, here are some thoughts on orientation, at a slightly higher level than the specific HAL implementation.
The first thing to consider is that the orient process needs to take control of the spindle motor. In some cases is it only necessary to make the spindle turn slowly (and with low torque) until a pin drops in to engagement. That is a fairly simple modification to the more general situation.
To orient a spindle using only the motor you need to temporarily make the spindle into a position-controlled axis just like X, Y and Z. And to do that you need the same sort of software control, which tends to mean a PID controller component in HAL. That will look at the difference between the current spindle position and the required spindle position, and will output clockwise/anticlockise / faster/slower commands for the motor.
The spindle position, after a period of running, will generally be many thousands of turns. Simply telling the spindle to return to (for example) 45 degrees, will try to unwind all those thousands of turns. So, something needs to be done to prevent that.
One approach would be to set the spindle index-enable (which will zero the spindle position at the next index marker). This would probably work, but would involve interfering with the normal index-enable net used for rigid tapping or lathe threading.
An alternative is to use the "orient" HAL component, which does a few useful things, but the main thing it does is take the many-thousand-of-turns spindle position and pass out only the partial-turns from the last full turn. This makes a good basis for the input to the orient PID controller. www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/orient.9.html
The spindle will never be "on" in the normal sense when orienting (so the orientation HAL needs to somehow send an enable to the spindle motor drive). An advantage of this is that there is no need to choose between the orient-pid output and the normal spindle control signal, they can just be added together.
The HAL logic needs some flag to tell it that it is time to orient. If the orient is using the M19 G-code ( www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-code.html#sec:M19 ) then the motion.spindle.orient bit can be used. If the tool-change is handled by a G-code subroutine then an M19 can be part of that sequence. Otherwise, it probably makes sense to use the iocontrol.0.tool-change output bit to start the orient.
So, the logic is that the orient flag enables the orient PID and the orient component .enable bits. The orient component calculates a valid input to the orient PID controller, (many thousands of whole turns, plus the required angle) and the PID controller uses that number in conjunction with the actual spindle position (many thousands of turns, plus a random partial turn) to output a spindle motor command that controls the spindle to move to a particular position.
The _exact_ implementation will depend on your current spindle control, whether you have a closed-loop control on spindle speed, whether there is a gearbox, etc etc. But basically it comes down to an extra PID component (that will need to be tuned), an orient component, and a sum2 to combine the normal + orient command sources to the motor.
But, here are some thoughts on orientation, at a slightly higher level than the specific HAL implementation.
The first thing to consider is that the orient process needs to take control of the spindle motor. In some cases is it only necessary to make the spindle turn slowly (and with low torque) until a pin drops in to engagement. That is a fairly simple modification to the more general situation.
To orient a spindle using only the motor you need to temporarily make the spindle into a position-controlled axis just like X, Y and Z. And to do that you need the same sort of software control, which tends to mean a PID controller component in HAL. That will look at the difference between the current spindle position and the required spindle position, and will output clockwise/anticlockise / faster/slower commands for the motor.
The spindle position, after a period of running, will generally be many thousands of turns. Simply telling the spindle to return to (for example) 45 degrees, will try to unwind all those thousands of turns. So, something needs to be done to prevent that.
One approach would be to set the spindle index-enable (which will zero the spindle position at the next index marker). This would probably work, but would involve interfering with the normal index-enable net used for rigid tapping or lathe threading.
An alternative is to use the "orient" HAL component, which does a few useful things, but the main thing it does is take the many-thousand-of-turns spindle position and pass out only the partial-turns from the last full turn. This makes a good basis for the input to the orient PID controller. www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/orient.9.html
The spindle will never be "on" in the normal sense when orienting (so the orientation HAL needs to somehow send an enable to the spindle motor drive). An advantage of this is that there is no need to choose between the orient-pid output and the normal spindle control signal, they can just be added together.
The HAL logic needs some flag to tell it that it is time to orient. If the orient is using the M19 G-code ( www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-code.html#sec:M19 ) then the motion.spindle.orient bit can be used. If the tool-change is handled by a G-code subroutine then an M19 can be part of that sequence. Otherwise, it probably makes sense to use the iocontrol.0.tool-change output bit to start the orient.
So, the logic is that the orient flag enables the orient PID and the orient component .enable bits. The orient component calculates a valid input to the orient PID controller, (many thousands of whole turns, plus the required angle) and the PID controller uses that number in conjunction with the actual spindle position (many thousands of turns, plus a random partial turn) to output a spindle motor command that controls the spindle to move to a particular position.
The _exact_ implementation will depend on your current spindle control, whether you have a closed-loop control on spindle speed, whether there is a gearbox, etc etc. But basically it comes down to an extra PID component (that will need to be tuned), an orient component, and a sum2 to combine the normal + orient command sources to the motor.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: cncbasher
Time to create page: 0.116 seconds