Brother TC-211

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12 years 1 month ago - 12 years 1 month ago #51170 by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Brother TC-211
Can you post the part of the manual that describes the spindle drive?

Often the orient function is built into the drive and only requires a orient command
and outputs a signal to indicate orient is complete
Last edit: 12 years 1 month ago by PCW.

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12 years 1 month ago #51172 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Brother TC-211
I haven't configured spindle orientation on my mill, mainly because I don't have a toolchanger and I probably won't be fitting one. (I do have a pneumatic pull-stud, though, which is far more fun than a drawbar)

But, here are some thoughts on orientation, at a slightly higher level than the specific HAL implementation.

The first thing to consider is that the orient process needs to take control of the spindle motor. In some cases is it only necessary to make the spindle turn slowly (and with low torque) until a pin drops in to engagement. That is a fairly simple modification to the more general situation.

To orient a spindle using only the motor you need to temporarily make the spindle into a position-controlled axis just like X, Y and Z. And to do that you need the same sort of software control, which tends to mean a PID controller component in HAL. That will look at the difference between the current spindle position and the required spindle position, and will output clockwise/anticlockise / faster/slower commands for the motor.

The spindle position, after a period of running, will generally be many thousands of turns. Simply telling the spindle to return to (for example) 45 degrees, will try to unwind all those thousands of turns. So, something needs to be done to prevent that.
One approach would be to set the spindle index-enable (which will zero the spindle position at the next index marker). This would probably work, but would involve interfering with the normal index-enable net used for rigid tapping or lathe threading.
An alternative is to use the "orient" HAL component, which does a few useful things, but the main thing it does is take the many-thousand-of-turns spindle position and pass out only the partial-turns from the last full turn. This makes a good basis for the input to the orient PID controller. www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/orient.9.html

The spindle will never be "on" in the normal sense when orienting (so the orientation HAL needs to somehow send an enable to the spindle motor drive). An advantage of this is that there is no need to choose between the orient-pid output and the normal spindle control signal, they can just be added together.

The HAL logic needs some flag to tell it that it is time to orient. If the orient is using the M19 G-code ( www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-code.html#sec:M19 ) then the motion.spindle.orient bit can be used. If the tool-change is handled by a G-code subroutine then an M19 can be part of that sequence. Otherwise, it probably makes sense to use the iocontrol.0.tool-change output bit to start the orient.

So, the logic is that the orient flag enables the orient PID and the orient component .enable bits. The orient component calculates a valid input to the orient PID controller, (many thousands of whole turns, plus the required angle) and the PID controller uses that number in conjunction with the actual spindle position (many thousands of turns, plus a random partial turn) to output a spindle motor command that controls the spindle to move to a particular position.

The _exact_ implementation will depend on your current spindle control, whether you have a closed-loop control on spindle speed, whether there is a gearbox, etc etc. But basically it comes down to an extra PID component (that will need to be tuned), an orient component, and a sum2 to combine the normal + orient command sources to the motor.

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12 years 1 month ago #51174 by mblaszkiewicz
Replied by mblaszkiewicz on topic Brother TC-211

PCW wrote: Can you post the part of the manual that describes the spindle drive?

Often the orient function is built into the drive and only requires a orient command
and outputs a signal to indicate orient is complete


I looked thru the whole manual. Nothing on an auto orient.

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12 years 1 month ago #51178 by JR1050
Replied by JR1050 on topic Brother TC-211
Does the spindle use a shot pin, limit switch or encoder position to orient?

most machines have an orient speed, which is around 90 rpm. faster then this and you miss the orient angular position or index mark, slower and you are wasting time.

I would think for a manual tool change, all you need is a draw bar release button and you should be able to freely swap tools.

This machine is similar to robodrill, which uses a cam operated toolchnger. Is this also the case? Is it pneumatic or possibly hydraulic? Does the turret have an absolute encoder to watch tool positions? Maybe a geneva cam with a prox switch? Does it have a tool one limit switch.?As of now, as far as I know, LCNC does not have the capacity to store last known tool postions, meaning every time you start it, you will have to make sure the first pocket is up and there is no tool in the spindle , or you will have to figure a way to teach the machine the present tool positions

You can attach the encoder index to more then one pin probably with an "or" type of component, I wrote a whole spindle control/index component for my mill. It can be done.

There are different strategies depending on what the machine uses for orient position senseing. Unfortunately every machine is different, even Fanuc doesnt have a one size fits all component for orient.

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12 years 1 month ago #51185 by cncbasher
Replied by cncbasher on topic Brother TC-211
it is possible that there is no Orient at least electrically , some can be mechanical .

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12 years 1 month ago - 12 years 1 month ago #51196 by mblaszkiewicz
Replied by mblaszkiewicz on topic Brother TC-211
The tool changer works on a cam system for the retention knob. The are no hydraulics or pneumatics in the machine. The spindle is actually a large servo motor with a resolver that outputs to the driver in a standard quadrangle output at 1024 ppr. Reading thru the two suggestions I would love to use the hal component but don't know how to implement it in Linux. My spindle is on encoder 3 on the 7177 card.

Anyone who could give me the raw code and tell me where to load it into to Linux I would be grateful.



As for the tool changer it is an encoder and 10 station assigned tool changer. There is a controller specifically for the tool changer in the electrical cabinet and a bunch of relay connections to it. I will post the pages tonight but having it change tools right now is not that important to Me. I can do it manually for now. I just need to orient the spindle to get them out.
Last edit: 12 years 1 month ago by mblaszkiewicz.

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