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Config attached - be warned, it's pretty complicated.  Feel free to ask if anything isn't clear.

There are a couple things still in there that aren't done (GUI related), but the tool changer is done and tested.

ATC hardware:

• Closed-loop stepper driving platter through a 5:1 reducer
• 18 pockets
• Sensors
  • Carousel
    • Once-per-pocket
    • Once-per-rotation (home)
    • Flags are 3D printed and attached to the forks (one fork is a 'double' that triggers the home sensor
    • Sensors are optical slot-type
    • Previous version had round stainless pins sweeping past inductive proxy's - that didn't work so well as a slight change in radial distance to the pin resulted in significant difference in rotational alignment
  • Slide
    • One proxy carriage FWD, one for retract
  • One for a pneumatic cover door

ATC config

• carousel.comp (make sure you get the latest version, there were a few edits recently)
  • INDEX mode
• Toolchange sequence handled via remap and heavily modified Probe Basic subroutines
• using carousel.n.align-dc - if this is set to something other than zero, carousel will do a fine alignment dance after the pocket sensor is triggered.  Andy did a nice job with this as carousel will approach the sensor trigger edge from the same direction regardless of the initial movement direction.
  • CW to sensor -> decel/stop slightly past -> back up CCW past trigger point -> move CW slow to trigger leading edge
  • CCW to sensor -> decel/stop slightly past -> move CW slow to trigger trailing edge (same edge as with CW move)
• carousel.n.debounce made a huge difference in reliability - this was a recent addition to the comp

Best thing I did was use halshow for testing.  I put all the appropriate pins in one watchlist and then disconnected carousel.n.enable and n.pocket-number from the 'real' connections, and did all testing by enabling/disabling in the halshow window.  Same-same for carousel homing/unhoming, as well as adjusting the speed & accel (including final align-dc).

In addition, I modified the PB subroutines to add a number of manual ATC function overrides for testing/troubleshooting.  Trying to remember which motion.something.digital-out-??? to trigger via MDI M64 P? or M65 P? is horrible when you have about 20 things all competing for brain-bandwidth.

When you look at the subroutines you'll ask yourself "why did he make a separate Mcode just to retract the ATC, or just to activate the drawbar?"  The reason is that it's easier to test - and recover from a problem - using GUI (or physical) buttons than it is to type in MDI stuff.

Note that some of the subroutines are not used; those are the 'OEM' files from the Probe Basic installation.  Others are used, but have been modified based on my particular config.  The primary files are 'toolchange.ngc' and all the Mxx.ngc files.  Mnn.ngc file numbering is mostly legacy stuff from the PB installation.

Still to do is a laser sensor to check that the tool is seated properly in the spindle taper.  User GuiHue has a very nice config and hardware setup that uses a laser sensor to check the top of the drawbar, and he inspired me to buy a sensor a while ago.

Depending on the spindle & pull-stud length, BT30 tool holders can be mis-grabbed by the drawbar claw (with the drive dogs not seated) and the tool will not be seated in the taper.  This is dangerous, obviously, but I currently don't have a way to check for this - I'm just checking that the PDB cylinder is fully retracted.  My tool forks have metal anti-rotation tabs that engage in the toolholder notches... but I'd still feel better knowing the tool is properly seated.

Now that the ATC appears to be working reliably, I'll be installing the laser sensor soon to see if the drawbar top is at the correct elevation for a seated toolholder - and alarm out if it isnt.

PS - once it's working well in testing, load the whole carousel up with heavy tools and do some more testing.  I had to reduce my speed & accel/decel a fair amount due to inertia - tripped the stepper a couple times as I had carousel moving too aggressive.

Thank you for your answers!
The cards are connected via a switch, I changed the IP address on the second card to 10.10.10.11 using mesaflash. I need two 7i92 because I have 8 stepper motors with feedback via linear encoders, 3 encoders on the control panel (JOG, Spindle speed, Feed corrector) and some more discrete inputs. These are the only boards I have available.
I added
addf [HMOT](CARD0).read-request servo-thread
addf [HMOT](CARD1).read-request servo-thread
addf [HMOT](CARD0).read servo-thread
addf [HMOT](CARD1).read servo-thread
and removed the space
and added to INI
[HMOT]
CARD0=hm2_7i92.0
CARD1=hm2_7i92.1
LinuxCNC started! Thank you all very much for your support!

Machine -
1993 Fadal VM15XT
Geneva style tool changer
7500rpm spindle (that's done with a 10volt signal) also easy FWD and Reverse connections
I already have Mesa 7i96s and a 7i85s. I'd want to run stepper online 1000watt servos possibly even the ethercat versions, but the 7i96s I have would run the step/pulse version just fine. Might have to snag another mesa car for some inputs, but the Fadal is a simple machine. Air operated spindle orientation, simple operation of the tool changer. I like the idea of absolute encoders as I could treat it kinda like the original control that used resolvers and simply call the old cold start my "home".

The reason I'm thinking about this is I need to replace the Y axis servo motor for a cool ~$1700. Instead op throwing $1700 at older tech, I can spend about that getting everything else that I need. Only down side is I would have some down time while setting up LinuxCNC.

Once I get the bugs out of the linux install, I'd imagine if I could control myself from tinkering with it, it would just run like its supposed to. So do you think its worth it or not? I have about $20k of work for the machine in the next 8-10months. Being down right now is not a HUGE issue, but I have a solid month / two months or so before it needs to be able to make parts again.

Also I could sell stock axis amps along with amp cards and such and cover more than it would cost me to retrofit the machine.
 

Both are new to me, the 7i96s and the servo. The 7i96s is wired and running stepper motors, one of them closed loop stepper. Looks beautiful

My question:
In the past I used db25 bob with parallel port, and vfd spindle. The bob has 24 v Power supplied to it in order to supply a modulated analog signal to the vfd.

I read the 7i96s manual, I could not figure out where the outsource 20 vdc power supply is terminated into the 7i96s.

image for the servo driver is included for speed control mode

Good day 

Philip
   

 

PCW wrote:

The analog input is VREF and AGND (pin 25 and 13)

So it can run as a stepper motor and as a analog/spindle

I will make a wire diagram and post a new thread within 2 to 3 weeks (time permits) before powering.

Many thanks 

Philip

tommylight wrote:

Position mode = step/ dir or same as a simple stepper system
Speed mode = velocity mode = analog input of +-10V <<< notice + and -
Torque mode = avoid using this, it requires doing stuff
-
For use with Mesa 7i96S the best would be using the position mode.
Notice of the above notice about + and - , Mesa 7i96S has an analog output that does 0-10V, that is not the same as +-10V.
0-10V on Mesa will work with +-10V drive, only in one direction, so check the manual if the drive has also an input that can change direction.
 

Excellent
I will take into consideration

many thanks

 

Position mode = step/ dir or same as a simple stepper system
Speed mode = velocity mode = analog input of +-10V <<< notice + and -
Torque mode = avoid using this, it requires doing stuff
-
For use with Mesa 7i96S the best would be using the position mode.
Notice of the above notice about + and - , Mesa 7i96S has an analog output that does 0-10V, that is not the same as +-10V.
0-10V on Mesa will work with +-10V drive, only in one direction, so check the manual if the drive has also an input that can change direction.

Since I'm new in this forum I'd like to show the background for my question. We have an old Taiwan drilling/milling machine upgraded with stepper motors and encoders on the axes. Axes motion and spindle (on/off, fwd/rev) are controlled by LinuxCNC 2.8.4 on Debian 10 using a Mesa 6i25 card. Later, some approaches adapting the GUI (AXIS) to fit the personal workflow had taken place. Quite soon the choice came to Qtvcp. Starting with the tutorial in the docs I set up a GUI according to my taste. For me it worked fine.

Now I want to switch to Debian bookworm using LinuxCNC 2.9.3 and, since I wanted to do minor extensions in the widgets, also want to have a development implementation cloning the git repository. The migration from 2.8.4 to  2.9.3 was basically not a big deal, only some conversion from python2 to python3 had to be done.

But, and that's my question, the behavior of the action buttons obviously has changed. The indicator LED of these buttons are only highlighted as long the buttons are not released (at switching on). The indicator function is referred to the status e.g. 'state_on'. The properties in the designer are set accordingly, i.e. 'indicator option', 'indicator_status_option' and 'is_on_status' e.g. are set to 'True'. The same behavior is observed in 2.10.0.pre (master c7b2655). I spent some time looking at the source code of action_button.py and indicatorMixIn.py. In the latter I came to the function 'connectSignals'   

def connectSignals(self):
        def _update(state):
            self.setChecked(state)
            if self._HAL_pin is False:
               self.indicator_update(state)
            # if using state labels option update the labels
            if self._state_text:
                self.setText(None)
            # if python commands call them
            if self._python_command:
                if state == None:
                    state = self._indicator_state
                self.python_command(state)

        if self.isCheckable():
            self.toggled[bool].connect(_update)
        else:
            self.pressed.connect(lambda: _update(True))
            self.released.connect(lambda: _update(False))
        _update(self.isChecked())

Obviously the indicator state gets set to False as soon as the button is released. Thus, the value previously set correctly by self._flip_state(..) gets overwritten. Shouldn't be the 'if'-statement, checking for the HAL-pin-option in the _update function also be extended to check for the status-option according to the _safecheck function in the action_button  code? Or do I mixing things with my very limited insight to the workflow of the code? At least, switching off the call of 'connectSignals' brings back the behavior known from 2.8.4.
Has anyone also observed this kind of behavior? And, just to mention, setting the button 'checkable' works as expected.

look, the square encoder gives us the direction and frequency, you can also calculate the angle and so on, depending on the accuracy of the encoder, the Z channel allows you to refer to the position of something, for the MPG Z is not needed, for stepper motor feedback, I would choose a diver with encoder support, and now I want feedback of the spindle speed, in theory it can be implemented using A encoder channel, or the Z channel theoretically could also give such functionality, I don’t need to cut threads, just feedback of revolutions per minute

Hello everyone, hopefully this is the right place to post this, and I'm sorry in advance for the long post.

To start my name is Adam and I have a custom cabinet/furniture shop that I run alone.  It is just me, from the Janitor to the CEO.  Well, I'm wanting to increase my production and the best way for me, would be a full size cnc.  Unfortunately I lack the funds required for such a purchase, so I'm thinking of retrofitting an older machine I came across.  For some background, I do own an xcarve, (small 30"x30" cnc, which uses a dewalt router) and laser cutter, have done designs and generated some g-code in fusion 360, but my primary cnc experience is with Easel, which is Xcarve's own web based processor for the cnc, and illustrator and lightburn for the laser.  Basically they are both extremely user friendly.

So that's the background, here is where I'm currently at...

I will say that diving into the world of building/retrofitting a cnc is like drinking from the fire hose.  I've read and watched so many youtube videos my head is spinning...  So that's why I'm here.  I believe I have settled on using Linuxcnc for the cnc control, but that's as far as I've gotten.

What I'm wanting to do:
Years ago my dad purchased a machine from a government surplus sale.  It came from Clemson University and is called a Data Technologies DT9066.  It was built in 2000.  Good luck finding information about them.  Anyway it, for all intents and purposes, is a cnc machine, but doesn't have a z axis or spindle.  It is a machine that was used for prototyping cardboard packaging.  It has a drag knife, creaser, engraver, etc.  It's working area is 90"x66", and has a vacuum hold down table.  I am thinking I can modify the gantry to move it and get a full 96" of working area out of it.  I'm going to have to modify it anyway to have a z-axis, as the gantry only sits about 2" from the bed.  Currently I do not have photos of it, because it's covered in junk as it's become a catch all in my shop, since it was essentially useless to me.

When we assembled the machine in my shop years ago, we connected it just like it was at Clemson when we got it, and it worked as far as moving around, so the motors and amplifiers are working.  The problem is the computer that controls it is incredibly old, and from what I understand the "motion controller" for it, is built into another computer tower, and the internals make absolutely no sense to me.  There's a tag that says "Gaudax" on one of the boards inside of it, but I couldn't find any info on that.

What I do know is it currently has 3 Servo's and amplifiers.  They are Magmotor servos with encoders on them.  They are driven through Copley Controls model 303, and 306 amplifiers, which is the start of my predicament.  

I know I will need to add another either servo or stepper for my z axis, that's obvious, but I was looking at various control boards, or break out boards, or motion controllers, and have seen some that will work with either analog, or digital step/dir but not both, so I think I'm going to have to either stick with an analog servo for the z axis, or replace all of the electronics with steppers and drivers.  On one hand, it may be easier to stick with all servos, because I've read good things about them, on the other hand it may be easier to start from scratch with new steppers and drivers, I mean the stuff on there is already 24 years old, and on the other other hand, maybe there's digital drivers for those old servos now, who knows?

I just don't know what to do next, so I am looking for advice.  If there is a mesa board that will function with the old analog amplifiers, will it also be upgradable if they go out and I have to replace them with newer digital drivers?  Would it be better to replace everything? (I said mesa because that is what usually comes up when I'm researching linuxcnc)  

Oh, and when considering board options, ideally, in a perfect world, and not neccessarily all at once, I'd like to have an ATC spindle, and eventually a rotary, since I'll be processing sheets 48" wide, but my work area is 66" wide, I figured I could put an atc rack down one side with a rotary in front of it, if that makes sense.  That way the machine will be able to do anything I could ever want it to.


Sorry for such a long post, but I figured it'd be best to get all the information I could out at once, so please let me hear your comments, suggestions, advice, etc.  I am in the very early "planning" stage of this build, so I am open to anything.  I just want to keep costs down as much as possible, but am willing to spend a little more if it will make for a better end product.

Thank you,
Adam

Hello,

Charity where I volunteer has been given a Pacer Cadet CNC. It's probably around 20-25 years old, but in a good condition and very sturdy.

We are unsure if it works, and it has been driven by some proprietary software from a Windows XP computer through USB to Serial to Parallel adapters.

We are wondering if anyone has any experience with this machine and any suggestions about the best way to convert it. The charity is an actual charity and not a tax efficient way for someone to get rich and it's not gonna be a money maker, so the budget is tight.

Spindle controller: Hitachi L200
Spindle: Perske 1.2kW / 23k rpm
Steppers? HY200
Motion board: Axiomatic C902
Controller board Axiomatic Cadet VMC Board (looks like an ISA board; PC connected to serial off the board; the parallel connected to motion board)

We were wondering if we could get away with sending command to the controller board from LinuxCNC or we should consider replacing controller & motion boards. Any advice and input welcome.


 

spacestate1 wrote:

The idea is to use it as a 4th Axis in a CNC mill. The machine already has closed loop stepper drives for x, y and z controlled via a Mesa 7i96s.

So if I understand this correctly, wiring the MCG servo amp directly to the 7i96s control the motor wont work (I'm using the analog pins for the spindle currently).

I need to have an intermediary device such as the Gecko 320X to convert the signals? or would it be easier to just get a DCS810 and use it directly with step/dir wiring to the 7i96 ? Or is it likely that this motor doesn't do step/ dir, only analog ?
 

Yes, I am pretty sure you are right, the Mesa board probably will send step/direction to a motor drive, and the MCG drive wants analog.  But, a Gecko 320X will do what you want.  steps in -- brush motor out.
Jon

The idea is to use it as a 4th Axis in a CNC mill. The machine already has closed loop stepper drives for x, y and z controlled via a Mesa 7i96s.

The servo motor is most likely brushed based on similar motors I've seen for sale.

So if I understand this correctly, wiring the MCG servo amp directly to the 7i96s control the motor wont work (I'm using the analog pins for the spindle currently). I need to have an intermediary device such as the Gecko 320X to convert the signals? or would it be easier to just get a DCS810 and use it directly with step/dir wiring to the 7i96 ? Or is it likely that this motor doesn't do step/ dir, only analog ?

Sorry I don;t have a ton of experience with servos.

This 8 spindle gang router with 8 independent Z axis (using closed loop stepper motors), tandem servos for the Y axis gantry, and a servo on they X axis.
 
This machine has evolved a bit over time.  It was my very first Linuxcnc(EMC2) retrofit.  I have shared some details of it through the years.  Here is a link to what it looked like when I was first setting it up on Linuxcnc.
forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-q...-help?start=50#11052
The machine originally only had 3 joints, with a single servo moving a large (2ft x 8ft) aluminum plate up and down via a centrally mounted lead screw.  All 8 spindles were bolted to that plate with a hand actuated screw to fine tune each spindle's depth.  The Y axis was moved by a set of helical rack and pinion gears on each end of the gantry, connected together by a 12ft long torque tube drive shaft, then a 12:1 belt reduction to the servo motor.  The X axis was driven by a servo/lead screw combo.  After 20years of use all of the linear components needed refreshed, so we decided to redesign most of it.

X axis received the least change, changing from a high lead lead screw connected to the servo via a belt reduction, to a new 25mm x 5mm lead ball screw directly coupled to the servo, and new linear ways.

Y axis, got new larger linear ways, and replaced the rack and pinions with two 25mm x 10mm lead ball screws and 2:1 belt reduction to the old Y and former Z servos.

For the Zs, I removed the large 3/4inch thick by 2ft x 8ft plate, cut off 8 pieces 5inch x 24inch and milled them to mount a pair of linear ways and a ball screw for each spindle and a NEMA 23 closed loop stepper motor for each.
Here is a link to a Google photo album containing some photos of the pieces I milled for each of the 8 Z-axis joints.
photos.app.goo.gl/Tx2oYkS272xBUMvZ7

Then I'm attaching a copy of my config directory so others can see how I implemented the individual Z axis joints.  The Z axis is set up as a dummy master joint that automatically homes.  Each spindle joint is set up as an "extra" joint.  There is a GladeVCP panel that lets the operator enable and disable each of the spindles.  When a spindle is enabled, that spindle's Z-joint is connected to the dummy master's position plus a tool offset.  When it is disabled the spindle's joint is moved back up to it's home position.  This way only the spindles actually being used are ever moved with the Z axis. 

There are also buttons on the Glade panel for tool probing routines for each of the spindle Z-axis.  These disable all of the other spindle Z-axis and enable the one being probed, then sets the tool offset for that spindle according to the probe results.

Then I created a GladeVCP tab window for displaying and manipulating the tool offsets for each of the spindles.
 

 
 

It is used for decorative wood carving (signs, plaques...). Carving 8 pieces at a time. Originally it only had a single Z axis. with a hand screw for fine adjustment of each spindle height. This was difficult to maintain and adjust the Z depth between each spindle for varying material thicknesses or when changing tools. So I recently rebuilt the machine with a separate closed loop stepper motor, ball screw and linear guides on each spindle. I also replaced the old single servo, 12ft torque tube, rack and pinion drive system for the Y axis with new larger linear ways, two ball screws and 2 servos. Then after doing all of that work I found out that the majority of the slop in the old system wasn't due to compliance in the old drive train, but fex in the bridge. So I stiffened the bridge, and it is greatly improved. (The X also got new ways, and replaced a belt driven lead screw with a direct drive ball screw and added tool touch probe and probing routine.)