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27 Dec 2023 17:02
Rotary encoder for feed/spindel override wiring Meas 7i77 was created by CNCDoc

Rotary encoder for feed/spindel override wiring Meas 7i77

Category: General LinuxCNC Questions

Has two rotary encoders. Which I intended to use as a feed/spindle override. Can I use encoder input 3/4?


 
24 Dec 2023 14:57
Replied by matos67 on topic Mesa 7i80DB to retrofit 4 axis VMC

Mesa 7i80DB to retrofit 4 axis VMC

Category: Driver Boards

Hi, i wish a Merry Christmas to all the linuxcnc community.I have been working for almost a year on the mecanical aspects of this retrofit.New turcite, scraping, spindle bearings, adapting new servos on axis and so on...Now i just finished the wiring of the servos and spindle motor/drive.It's time to hook up linuxcnc and mesa cards with the following combo :7i80db 7i77 7i76 7i73.

I use servostar S600 drives from Kollmorgen on all axis and i would like to control them in velocity mode with the analog /-10 of the 7i77 card.The position loop is done with encoders mounted on the ballscrews and connected also to the 7i77.
I'm really confused in the way the analog interface is described in the 7i77 manual.  
If i get it right the wiring would be:
servostar Analog-in 1+  ---> 7i77 AOUTN
                Analog-in 1-   --->7i77 GNDN(adjacent to AOUTN)
                AGND            --->7i77  ?
Firstly it seem's there is a confusion in the in the manual between GNDN(in the descrition of the interface) and GND(connector description).
I'm searching which 7i77 terminal would be called  CNC-GND from the servostar point of view and also to what terminal attach the shielding?

The spindle drive is Siemens sinamics S20.
Due to its ability to be driven in bipolar analog mode i would like to control it with 7i77 analog output to try to achieve M19 orientation with spindle encoder hooked to 7i77 or 7i76.
Siemens V20 Al 1  ---> 7i77 AOUTN
                   0V       ---> 7i77 GNDN(adjacent to AOUTN)
                GND       --->7i77  ?
Again i'm confused with how to wire up the digital ground and the shielding.

Thank you in advance for your support!

 
24 Dec 2023 00:03
Replied by tommylight on topic Galil DMC-17x0

Galil DMC-17x0

Category: Driver Boards

I dont need an interface board. what i need is for linuxcnc to connumicate via an ISA bus to tell the Galil where it is going next. 

ISA bus = very, very old, i think i have some of those collecting dust somewhere, although i never looked what make/model as they are ISA...Have some PCI also collecting dust.
I am not aware of anything regarding LinuxCNC for ISA bus (might be, though), so short of writing a driver for it (no idea how hard it is but from what i read on this forum not very hard), it is a no go.
So in short, yes you do need an interface board, a Mesa 7i97 would be nice if you can find it, but if you can not, then a 7i92T or 7i96S with a 7i77 will do the same for 5 axis plus spindle (spindle can be used as servo, so 6 axis).
09 Dec 2023 13:41
Replied by tommylight on topic Mesa 7i77 Analog Enable

Mesa 7i77 Analog Enable

Category: Driver Boards

Mesa 7i77 has 5 ENA controlled by the same pin, and the spindle ENA controlled by a separate pin, as you have mentioned, so yes those are separate, but i can no recal if the ENA work with only spinena or does it also need spindle speed somewhere somehow, sorry been a long time.
Those ena are optocouplers so i never ever wire relays to them, i wire those directly to drive enables.
-
Even if those ena are gone you can route those pins to any output on the mesa boards, or have both of those or almost whatever it may be required.
Example
# --- X-ENABLE ---
net x-enable hm2_7i92.0.7i71.1.4.output-15

# --- Y-ENABLE ---
net y-enable hm2_7i92.0.7i77.0.0.output-04

# --- Z-ENABLE ---
net z-enable hm2_7i92.0.7i77.0.0.output-05
Notice the X enable goes to a Mesa 7i71 output and the rest to 7i77 outputs, so any combination will work, depending on your hardware.
09 Dec 2023 09:17
Mesa 7i77 Analog Enable was created by davew

Mesa 7i77 Analog Enable

Category: Driver Boards

I'm a new user working my way through commissioning a retrofit of a 3 axis Mill (DeckelFP4NC) with a Mesa 7i92/7i77/7i74 setup, Linuxcnc V2.9.1, Axis GUI. The mill has DC brushed servo motors and I'm using Parker 514C servo drives with an active high enable and -10V to 10V speed setpoint analog input.

I'm not getting any voltage output from the 7i77 ENA signals to enable the servo drive in response to the analogena pin being set high.

Initial setup: 24V to ENA0 , ENA0- to A1 of relay coil, A2- of relay coil to GND. The enable relay didn't turn ON in response to setting hm2_7i92.0.7i77.0.1.analogena high - confirmed in the HAL watch window. I think I may have damaged the 7i77 optocouplers by connecting the ENA- to a relay with a coil current greater than the 50mA specified in the 7i77 manual.

Troubleshooting:
1) I've checked that there's 24V on ENA0 and connected ENA0- to a spare input of the 7i77 (hm2_7i92.0.7i77.0.0.input-31) but don't see this pin change in response to the analog enable.
2) I've shifted the wiring to ENA5 and repeated the test there using the spindle enable pin hoping that the spindle enable might be separated from the other optocouplers - but no response on the input to setting the spindle enable pin high.

Is there anything else I can try before ordering a new 7i77 card?
I've attached an extract from the HAL file used with the analog enable and 7i77 input combination (1).

Thanks in advance for the help - the forum has been a huge help in getting this far. 
30 Nov 2023 07:18
Replied by pmchetan on topic Mesa 7i77 support for absolute linear encoder

Mesa 7i77 support for absolute linear encoder

Category: Driver Boards

Three questions:
Can the RS422 on 7i77 be used as encoder input for testing until I get 7i74 board delivered?
I am told BISS and SSI though very similar, can't be used interchangeably. I wanted to know which encoder should I order: BISS protocol or SSI? 
I would have three absolute linear encoders, one rotary absolute encoder and one spindle incremental encoder. Is 7i74 better than 7i85 for the my setup?
25 Nov 2023 16:05
Replied by greg23_78 on topic Hal gearchange for beginner

Hal gearchange for beginner

Category: HAL

I'm sorry but I'm having trouble understanding your configuration. I haven't tested it yet. I wanted to finish wiring my encoder or buy a tachometer for the time being to get feedback on the speed of rotation with a given frequency to configure the min and max frequencies of my drive.

but i've tried to get the gearchange to work but i'm having problems declaring variables or pins. below is my hal and ini
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
INI
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
P = 0.0
I = 0.0
D = 0.0
FF0 = 1.0
FF1 = 0.0
FF2 = 0.0
BIAS = 0.0
DEADBAND = 0.0
MAX_OUTPUT = 3000.0
ENCODER_SCALE = 1024.0
OUTPUT_SCALE = 1500
OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = 0
OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 1500
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HAL
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
loadrt abs count=1                                                
loadrt gearchange

addf abs.0 servo-thread
addf gearchange.0 servo-thread
setp gearchange.0.max-low 400
setp gearchange.0.high-ratio 1
setp gearchange.0.low-ratio 2
setp gearchange.0.brake-enable 0

#*******************
#  SPINDLE
#*******************

setp   pid.s.Pgain     [SPINDLE_0]P
setp   pid.s.Igain     [SPINDLE_0]I
setp   pid.s.Dgain     [SPINDLE_0]D
setp   pid.s.bias      [SPINDLE_0]BIAS
setp   pid.s.FF0       [SPINDLE_0]FF0
setp   pid.s.FF1       [SPINDLE_0]FF1
setp   pid.s.FF2       [SPINDLE_0]FF2
setp   pid.s.deadband  [SPINDLE_0]DEADBAND
setp   pid.s.maxoutput [SPINDLE_0]MAX_OUTPUT
setp   pid.s.error-previous-target true


net spindle-index-enable  <=> pid.s.index-enable
net spindle-enable        =>  pid.s.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm     => pid.s.command
net spindle-vel-fb-rpm      => pid.s.feedback
net abs.0.in               <=  pid.s.output
net positive-only-spindle-speed-cmd  <= abs.0.out


# ---PWM Generator signals/setup---

setp   hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-scalemax  [SPINDLE_0]OUTPUT_SCALE
setp   hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-minlim    [SPINDLE_0]OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT
setp   hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-maxlim    [SPINDLE_0]OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT

# ---Encoder feedback signals/setup---

setp    hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.counter-mode 0
setp    hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.filter 1
setp    hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.index-invert 0
setp    hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.index-mask 0
setp    hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.index-mask-invert 0
setp    hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.scale  [SPINDLE_0]ENCODER_SCALE


net spindle-revs             <=   hm2_5i24.0.resolver.05.position
net spindle-vel-fb-rps       <=   hm2_5i24.0.resolver.05.velocity
net spindle-index-enable     <=>  hm2_5i24.0.resolver.05.index-enable

# ---setup spindle control signals---

net spindle-vel-cmd-rps        <=  spindle.0.speed-out-rps
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps-abs    <=  spindle.0.speed-out-rps-abs
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm        <=  spindle.0.speed-out
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs    <=  spindle.0.speed-out-abs
net spindle-enable             <=  spindle.0.spindle-on
net spindle-cw                 <=  spindle.0.spindle-forward
net spindle-ccw                <=  spindle.0.spindle-reverse
net spindle-brake              <=  spindle.0.spindle-brake
net spindle-revs               =>  spindle.0.spindle-revs
net spindle-at-speed           =>  spindle.0.spindle-at-speed
net spindle-vel-fb-rps         =>  spindle.0.spindle-speed-in
net spindle-index-enable      <=>  spindle.0.spindle-index-enable

# ---Connect the VFD---

net positive-only-spindle-speed-cmd => gearchange.0.speed-command
net motor-speed gearchange.0.motor-speed => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5
net spindle-enable => gearchange.0.spindle-on => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
net spindle-cw  => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-10
net spindle-ccw  => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-09
net low-gear gearchange.0.low-gear => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-11
net high-gear gearchange.0.high-gear => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-12
net brake gearchange.0.brake => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-13
#net manual-low gearchange.0.manual-low <=
#net manual-high gearchange.0.manual-high <=
#net spindle-at-speed

et le fichier gearchange.comp de andypugh 
component gearchange "A component to choose spindle gears according to spindle speed";
pin in float speed-command;
pin in bit spindle-on;
pin in bit manual-low;
pin in bit manual-high;
pin in bit brake-enable;
pin out float motor-speed;
pin out bit low-gear;
pin out bit high-gear;
pin out bit brake;
param rw float low-ratio=3;
param rw float high-ratio=1;
param rw float max-low = 500;

author "andy pugh";
license "GPL";
function _;

;;

FUNCTION(_){
    static int old_M3;

    if (spindle_on) {
        if (!old_M3){ // spindle off to on transition
            if (manual_high) {
                high_gear = 1;
                low_gear = 0;
                brake = 0;
            }
            else if (manual_low){
                high_gear = 0;
                low_gear = 1;
                brake = 0;
            } else if (speed_command <= max_low){
                high_gear = 0;
                low_gear = 1;
                brake = 0;
            } else {
                high_gear = 1;
                low_gear = 0;
                brake = 0;
            }
        }
    } else { //spindle off
        high_gear = 0;
        low_gear = 0;
        brake = brake_enable;
    }
        
    old_M3 = spindle_on;

    if (high_gear){
        motor_speed = speed_command * high_ratio;
    } else if (low_gear){
        motor_speed = speed_command * low_ratio;
    }
}

I get the following error message : parameter or pin "gearchange.0.max-low" not found
                                                                           "gearchange.0.high-ratio"
                                                                           "gearchange.0.low-ratio"
                                                                           "gearchange.0.brake-enable "

what do I need to add to declare these parameters?
20 Nov 2023 20:00
clausing kondia retrofit was created by btvpimill

clausing kondia retrofit

Category: CNC Machines

I have a machine to retrofit. Seems pretty straight forward (famous last words)
Drives are good, spindle is good, control is shot.

drives are some type of analog input (0-10, +-5,something)
encoder feedback is all differatial (+a-a, +b-b, +z-z)
lots of I/O
I have on hand a 5i25 and a 7i77. Will this get me there to talk to 4 analog drives and read 4 encoders? will it leave me with lots of I/O?
need to get the tool changer working as well.
If I need more/other boards I am happy to buy them.

In my dream world this would be connect the signals and everything works after proper configuration. meaning the hardware is not the issue.8
13 Nov 2023 14:06
Replied by blazini36 on topic Running servos in position mode instead of analog

Running servos in position mode instead of analog

Category: Driver Boards

It's great he sent you a picture of a 1ms delay. But he told me the same thing. And when I asked why it's 5ms he could only point fingers at Linuxcnc but couldn't articulate any particular thing to look at that caused the delay.

 

You can't either because it's not "5ms". Using the HAL analog output command as your starting reference is not the right way to do that because nobody knows what voltage you have the drive set to respond to. At best the 3ms delay between encoders is valid.

Plenty of other setups use Linuxcnc and a 7i77 board but don't have this issue. I couldn't find a single example of someone using DMM with accurate encoder feedback. The only ones I found were using galil controllers and they used filters to remove the delays they were getting back from the encoder section. 

I use a DYN4 with encoder feedback and it's plenty accurate. I use a 5000k rpm motor on my spindle controlled with step/direction from a 7i76e, it rigid taps all day. Analog control shouldn't make a difference except what is calculated as the deadzone. The analog command doesn't have an effect until the voltage is above/below the deadzone which is why you can't use the first blip of your HAL analog output command as a reference. If there was no deadzone you wouldn't be able to stop the motor but nothing about that is unique to DMM.

And regardless of using a scope or not the servos would over current fault attempting to catch up to their commanded speed .I could never get them to run full speed in velocity mode with a closed loop.

Again sounds like you didn't tune the deadzone out of your PID. I'm assuming that because A, that's exactly what would happen as the drive just reached the Analog input threshold and B you never mentioned the deadzone then you posted the halscope image and the only way you come up with 5ms from looking at that is if you don't account for the deadzone at all. The size of the deadzone is dependant on other parameters set in the drive, it's on P78 of the manual

You have to ask yourself "why is no one else having the same issue running Linuxcnc and servos in closed loop". Maybe the issue is with DMM servos not being well built. 

Well built compared to what? Are you expecting a $250 servo drive to be as good as a $1k drive? If the "issue" is the "delay" then we gotta figure out what the actual delay is and if it's unreasonable. I have a DYN4 setup on a motor stand coupled with an encoder so I can test this. I didn't feel like setting up a Windows VM last night to re-configure the drive but I'll do that at some point today maybe. Like I said, I would expect a "delay" on the encoder output because of the nature of how it's generated. 3ms seems excessive, 1ms is probably fine but realistically it has to be compared with other drives doing the same thing.
 
12 Nov 2023 14:20 - 12 Nov 2023 15:05
Replied by greg23_78 on topic P.L.G freqrol

P.L.G freqrol

Category: Driver Boards

Thank you for your feedback,

to check the encoder connection i dismantled it until i could see the wiring on the connector, below is the wiring for the encoder output connector

  
I have the impression that the 3 channels A,B,Z are single-ended, can you confirm this?

Between the connector and the encoder there is an electronic card with the following outputs

V+ - RED
G   - BLACK
V-   - BLUE
CG - GREY
G    - YELLOW
B0   - WHITE
A0   - GREEN

if this is true, the encoder wiring on the 7i77 should look like this?
 
09 Nov 2023 19:28 - 09 Nov 2023 19:30
P.L.G freqrol was created by greg23_78

P.L.G freqrol

Category: Driver Boards

Hello,
Following a misunderstanding of the freqrol drive and its configuration, I would like to exchange it for a more recent generation variable speed drive.
But I would like to keep its servo control.
The freqrol documentation mentions a P.L.G. spindle encoder.
Does anyone know what P.L.G corresponds to?

Does the PLG connection (below) correspond to a standard incremental encoder connection? A+/A-/B+/B-/Z+/Z-/5V
/GND
If yes, what do I wire Z+/Z- for?

1-PA
2-RA
3-PB
4-RB
5-AGA
6-NI5C
7-PZ
8-PI5C
9-AGA

the plg will be connected to a 7i77 card
24 Oct 2023 15:00 - 24 Oct 2023 15:05
Retrofit Precix 3 Axis Gantry Mill was created by ahess

Retrofit Precix 3 Axis Gantry Mill

Category: CNC Machines

Hopefully this is following the forum rules when i open a new post.
This is more or less a follow up of a post from Randy: 
forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/3649...t-of-precix-5x10-cnc
We got a precix 3Axis Gantry mail in our department (University of applied arts vienna), which i want to give a 2nd life as the controller was broken for years. The mill has 3 DC-Servos and a 2.2KW Colombo Spindle  
I Started it in Feb. 2023. Learned a lot over the summer and set up a new controller with new electricity but mostly relying on the old components (PSU, Motors, Spindle/VFD, Drivers are original). Controller is a mesa 7i77/7i92t. 
Also learned to draw electric/electronic blueprints with KiCAD which was a great help
With the help of the forum I managed to run first G-Codes on the plain setup board (disconnected from the machine ) last week.
While tuning the motordrivers i ran into issues constantly tripping the breakers in front of the servo psu which is a beefy toroidal transformer(1500VA). Tripping happens when turning off! the PSU 1 out of 3 times. Also my ssr was blown already - maybe not a good idea i found out already.
So here is my question:
Who has more experience with induction/overvoltage issues running an old psu?
Suggestions for improving the electrical layout is appreciated, as the machine will hopefully run in an university environment again and i am not a trained electrician #safety.
I also attached some images and a schematic of my current controller setup.

Thx,
Armin


 
06 Oct 2023 20:09
Replied by Alexandrion on topic M19 and spindle-index-enable issues

M19 and spindle-index-enable issues

Category: Advanced Configuration

Thank you Andy for the new orient component! Now I can orient the spindle in one turn and with higher accuracy.

In my case I think I had an issue with the high values of the encoder count on my mesa 7i77, the longer the spindle ran the longer the orient took because instead of 1 rotation orient, my spindle did 6-7 rotations ccw and then another 6-7 cw before the orient was completed, even if I ran in orient mode 1.  I even tried to use M5 and a dwell before orienting but no success.

The only issue I had with the new component was G33.1 not synching properly and wanting to go at maximum speed into the workpiece, quite a sphincter tightening experience, but it seems that this issue was resolved by deleting the index_enable = 0 from case 0.

Regards,
Alex
01 Oct 2023 17:59
Replied by abdulasis12 on topic Orientation position problem after run Gcode

Orientation position problem after run Gcode

Category: General LinuxCNC Questions

I'd recommend using shielded cables and proper grounding.

Have any idea for orientation with 7i77 ?
I Ever use spindle motor mitsubishi Meldas it's have orientation mode internal .
When sent signal output to trick spindle amplifier orientation, it's will spin up (in second) and decrease speed down with lock position for orientation before toolchange .

I think if can reset index or position encoder before orient will work with 7i77 too , for clear all error signal before orient (I try a lot time if spindle run lower 3000 rpm will orient correct all time, but in real when working I use spindle 6500 rpm+ and will wrong position encoder maybe from noise)

Can for reset index or encoder position before M19 ?
26 Sep 2023 04:48
Replied by abdulasis12 on topic Orientation position problem after run Gcode

Orientation position problem after run Gcode

Category: General LinuxCNC Questions

OK I would first verify the you have valid differential signals at the 7I77
You can do this by measuring the differential voltage with a voltmeter

You measure _between_ A and /A  and _between_ B and /B
and verify that you have > 2V absolute in each state.
(you need to wiggle the spindle around to get each state)
One state should be >+2V and the other < -2V
(absolute value always greater than 2V)

Hi Mr. PCW
I check done , result show below in picture
Asis,

 
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