Hurco KMB-IS CNC update

One thing I missed and should have asked before is have you been into the rear cabinet to see if the original transformers are still there or either missing or both missing? I know you said the servo transformer is hanging off the back, but wanted to know if the original was there still.

Leith,

One thing I did not mention last night is that the Y and Z have belts, but X is directly coupled to the ball screw.

Yes if you feel safer removing them by all means do so to avoid getting hurt or have an axis crash. I did not, but I had the E-stop and Proximity switches working to shunt the amps, so I was not worried about crashing.

Also, I am beginning to think that someone at Colorado State tried to fix the machine and hence the transformer hanging off the back.

I can speak from experience as we have bought machinery from Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Boeing, and several other defense contractors. I have personally been in several of these facilities more than once, as we are already cleared by the DOD for our day to day job, and they absolutely will not be adding a transformer hanging off the back. They are going to order and fix with correct parts from Hurco or get the correct type of part and replace. These are companies that follow the rules because of liability and they do not want to ruffle the waters with the DOD. I believe someone tried to make a fix as I doubt CSU would have spent the money required to have it serviced and repaired. Defense contractors have money to throw at the machines, but universities usually will not spend on machinery. I know that some of the tech schools/colleges received machinery as a gift and a lot of them do not have the money allocated to spend on repairs.

Also, yes the machine could have been fully functional. DOD requires defense contractors to "Time Out" machinery. What that means is that they would buy a brand new machine say in 1983, the machine no matter if it is brand new and just sitting there will be "Timed Out" in 20 years or whatever the DOD requires for that particular machine. I have a feeling the machine was totally working when CSU received it. All of our machinery that we bought was fully operational. Just as an example, we bought a Monarch VMC that cost General Dynamics $267K brand new, and we bought it for $100... YES I SAID $100. The machine was fully operational and still in tolerance, the mill itself weighed 23,000 lbs plus tons of tooling. General Dynamics told me that the machine was excellent and simply timed out, and if not for the time out would be on the floor still making parts. We bought a Cincinnati Milacron T3 robot from Lockheed, the machine had very very low hours. It cost Lockheed $515K new, and we bought it fully functional for $500.... Now keep in mind we are also riggers and fully insured to go into these facilities and get the machines, so that is why most people cannot get these deals. Our insurance is ridiculously priced. They may have the capability to move it, but cannot get into the facility. So I fully believe the machine was working coming from Lockheed.

I have a feeling it's a repair gone bad or never finished. I would trace the power wires from the Max 430's backwards as there should be a contactor somewhere. There has to be something somewhere to break power to the amps during a E-stop. Too bad I not closer to you, I could show you a lot of wiring and what it does.


Just some thoughts on my opinion. I am super busy, will be back later,
Robert

Looked some more at the Hurco.

Was expecting to find the rear cabinet door I had missed. But there is no rear cabinet. Looked behind the rear sheet metal and its mostly empty space. There are wires and a contactor I think and a few other things in the LH cabinet. I'll just have to make it up as I go along.

I'm pretty sure that the people at CSU did little more than lean on the machine at coffee break time for about 15 years.

The brown transformer in the picture below has been added. And based on condition, I'm pretty sure the machine had see considerable use after the transformer was added.

In the picture below, you can see where the compressed air dryer and regulator were. Its been removed and is not with the machine. To the lower left of the brown transformer, there is some sort of air device... I think. There's a broken gauge. No idea what this does.

And, a while back, I did look at the X axis drive. And if memory serves, it does have a belt similar to the Y and Z axes.

Leith,

Ok now we are getting somewhere.... you have a later model than mine. I know the Ultimax Twin Screen control came out around 1985 and yours is literally right before the change. I think the schematics will be close, but yours will be just a bit different.

Ok I was bracing for much worse when you were describing the transformer in the past. That would be acceptable even for a repair at Lockheed. I was thinking it was just a transformer bolted on with exposed wiring, but there is nothing wrong with how it is. It's in an enclosure and has the wiring in flex, so no issue there. I believe that is the step down transformer. It looks way too big for servo trans. I would follow that wiring and see what it does. I have a feeling it was wired 440 and still is.

Ok, I still say the X axis is bolted and coupled without belt, but you will be able to check and find out. It shouldn't be a big deal to detach and simply lay the motor with bracket up onto the table. The encoder should be on the end of the motor so you will still be able to set-up in LCNC while its sitting on the table.

You are missing the air inlet assembly on the left as you face the back of the machine. I will attach a pic of your style machine below. Your oiler bolts right up where the piece is missing at the bottom center. You will see it in the picture. I have not been into this style, so I cannot accurately tell you where the transformers were originally located, but they would have been in the back or left cabinet. Since your cabinet on the right is really close to mine, there is no way that the step down would have been in there as it is too big. I knew yours was newer because of the head, but your pendant is identical and thought you may have the same rear cabinet and bottom end of the machine. Not sure how much newer, but I believe yours is around a 84 model.






Got to get back to paperwork, so way behind... will try to help later (if I am really helping at this point). I will check back later,

Robert

Leith,

I am way tied up on paperwork tonight, but when I get a chance I will layout a schematic of what I would do to the machine.

It will be a simple line drawing but enough to understand to get a game plan on what to do, or the way I would approach getting it going. I will be working on it along and along then send you something.

Talk to you later,
Robert

I forgot to ask in the last post.

I was a little unclear where you said you saw the contactor. Was it behind the panel at the back of the machine? If so, look and see if there is just the one or if there is a second. There should be two... one for the servo amp and one for the coolant pump. Let me know what you see next time you look.

Been trying to blow up the pic of the left cabinet so I can somewhat trace your wiring if possible.

Leith,

Ok, this may or may not help you, but I have full confirmation that the transformer in my rear cabinet is the servo transformer. I went back and checked the Hurco part numbers against pics of my trans and it is the same.
So at the same time when you are checking for the 2 contactors, look to see if that transformer is back there by chance.


Here is the pics of mine

Hi Robert,

In the left hand cabinet, there is what appears to be a single contactor. Don't know what its for.

And, I definitely don't have that Hurco T2 transformer. The servo drives have been upgraded. Assuming the transformer was upgraded too.

At this point, what I need to do is trace some of wiring and get an idea what's connected to what. For example, I can determine where the servo drive supplies are connected. But I'm not going to do this until the machine is located in my garage. Don't know when the machine will be moved.

Yes the thing to do now is trace backwards from the Max-430's. I am sure they are 80V input and not 110V, so I would trace backwards to see where the wiring goes. You can always check the front of the 430 amp to make sure it does state 80-85V input, just in case Electro-Craft made a change and started using 110V as this would eliminate the transformer... I doubt this, plus when I went back to your picture and zoomed in, it appears to say 80-85.

Tracing backwards will show what is going on. It should go backwards from the Max-430's to the servo transformer and the servo transformer power will go to back to the contactor that feeds it. The contactor should be there if it was done correctly as that would power & shunt the amps.... but you never know what someone has done before you. They may have had the amps hot all the time eliminating the contactor, I don't believe this, but you never know what was done. Me and you both are assuming that everything was wired correctly when it was working. It could have been re-wired during the upgrade and everything installed in the left cabinet when working, but some of it taken out when trying to fix whatever problem.

Nothing like following behind someone that doesn't do it correctly LOL. You may be cleaning up someone's mess... let's hope not.

I am super slammed today. I stayed up all night doing paperwork and now trying to get everything put together for tomorrow (my deadline is Saturday). I may or may not be around as much today/tonight, but will try to get back when I take a break.


Robert