Retrofitting Maho MH600E 1989 - Meas 5i25 & 7i77
10 Jul 2020 15:48 #174227
by Onkelmat
Replied by Onkelmat on topic Retrofitting Maho MH600E 1989 - Meas 5i25 & 7i77
I've found a new 24v psu in my garage that I've bought for another project. I've hooked it up to supply the 7i77 and the 7i84.
No change. Still random restarts.
As far as I can tell. It's LinuxCNC itself causing the restart.
I connected the latch relay directly to the 24v so I can the machine into power mode without the card doing anything. Doesn't even need to be connected.
Then I've run my linuxcnc configuration I'm using all the time and ou of 10 tries it crashes like 7 times right on splashscreen.
Then I've tried the axis_mm configuration by right click on linuxcnc and choosing one of the axis basic settings.
I could start linuxcnc 20 times without restart.
Then ive tried my config again and got instant restart.
I'm sure my ini or config have a problem.
I'll try to post both of them
No change. Still random restarts.
As far as I can tell. It's LinuxCNC itself causing the restart.
I connected the latch relay directly to the 24v so I can the machine into power mode without the card doing anything. Doesn't even need to be connected.
Then I've run my linuxcnc configuration I'm using all the time and ou of 10 tries it crashes like 7 times right on splashscreen.
Then I've tried the axis_mm configuration by right click on linuxcnc and choosing one of the axis basic settings.
I could start linuxcnc 20 times without restart.
Then ive tried my config again and got instant restart.
I'm sure my ini or config have a problem.
I'll try to post both of them
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10 Jul 2020 16:45 #174235
by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Retrofitting Maho MH600E 1989 - Meas 5i25 & 7i77
I would try an external 5V supply so any machine side 5V issues
do not affect the PC
You might also try another PC, maybe there are PCI issues of some kind
do not affect the PC
You might also try another PC, maybe there are PCI issues of some kind
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- tommylight
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10 Jul 2020 18:41 #174244
by tommylight
It is getting tiring to see so many replies to help you being ignored by you and insisting that LinuxCNC is at fault. It is not.
Replied by tommylight on topic Retrofitting Maho MH600E 1989 - Meas 5i25 & 7i77
Did you try any of those things???????????????????
That is telling you exactly where the problem is......this is the situation:
- Maho mains is ON
- the vent for the electirc cabinet is running low, nothing is active. Only power supplies of the maho are energized 19K1 not latched.
- i start Linux cnc
- when the Linuxcnc Splashscreen closes -> restart.1. Yes it does, but it is not Linux at fault.1. So this implies something from Linux triggers the restart.
2. I´ve then deleted almost the complete HAL but linux rewrites it..
3. Is there a documentation what LinuxCNC does with the cards on initial start ?
4. Or can i monitor it ?
5. So I think linux is doing something to the cards that causes a restart.
2. Why would you delete the complete hal? and Linux will not rewrite anything if not explicitly told to do so.
3. Yes there is, but on a lot of documentation for both the LinuxCNC and cards in use.
4. Yes, you need a DVM with memory function or min/max function.
5. ............... i see PCW has already replied
-
-Plug the PC on another socket in the shop, preferably not the same phase as the Maho,
-find another PC to test with, they are 50$ and up, so not worth the time lost chasing gremlins,
-if you do have a DVM with the above functions, monitor the 5V supply for both min and max values, under no circumstances they should deviate by more than 5%, or from 4.75 to 5.25V. I think for Mesa that should be even lower, like 2%.
-check if the PC power cord has grounding, do not use anything without ground on a machine.
-power the PC and 7i77 without powering the Maho, see if you get restarts. If yes, throw that Pc and get a new one. If no, something is wrong with one of the above or with the wiring/grounding or the supply voltage is dropping to the point of resetting the PC when Maho is turned on.
It is getting tiring to see so many replies to help you being ignored by you and insisting that LinuxCNC is at fault. It is not.
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10 Jul 2020 21:47 #174277
by Onkelmat
Replied by Onkelmat on topic Retrofitting Maho MH600E 1989 - Meas 5i25 & 7i77
- Ive tried 3 different power sockets for the pc
- I cant buy another pc and i really dont want to
- i don have volt meter than can memorize voltage drops or raises
- pc cord has grounding
- I can do whatever i want with the maho. I can turn itś powerstages like 100 times on and off. The pc only restarts when Linuxcnc is running. Very often the pc restarts the very moment i start linux cnc.
- i have 24v from external power source
- i had 5v from external power source.
Nothing really helped. Itś fact that the pc only reboots with linuxcnc running and 24V rail powered. Machine can be latched on to hold 24V or not. Both are possible.
And for real, in like 7 out of 10 cases the pc restarts as soon as linuxcnc finishes splash screen.
Iĺl try to copy my config and check if leaving something out helps.
- I cant buy another pc and i really dont want to
- i don have volt meter than can memorize voltage drops or raises
- pc cord has grounding
- I can do whatever i want with the maho. I can turn itś powerstages like 100 times on and off. The pc only restarts when Linuxcnc is running. Very often the pc restarts the very moment i start linux cnc.
- i have 24v from external power source
- i had 5v from external power source.
Nothing really helped. Itś fact that the pc only reboots with linuxcnc running and 24V rail powered. Machine can be latched on to hold 24V or not. Both are possible.
And for real, in like 7 out of 10 cases the pc restarts as soon as linuxcnc finishes splash screen.
Iĺl try to copy my config and check if leaving something out helps.
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10 Jul 2020 21:50 #174278
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Retrofitting Maho MH600E 1989 - Meas 5i25 & 7i77
I can bet my life you have something wired wrong with that latching thingy that is back-powering the PC the instant it activates.
But you can continue to chase LinuxCNC......
But you can continue to chase LinuxCNC......
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10 Jul 2020 22:01 - 10 Jul 2020 22:18 #174280
by Onkelmat
Replied by Onkelmat on topic Retrofitting Maho MH600E 1989 - Meas 5i25 & 7i77
uh uŕe fast.
maybe this helps.
when the machine is powered and 24v is on. but not latched.
i start linuxcnc and when it not restarted yet. it restarts as soon as i turn an axis spindle.
maybe i have to edit this post again when i cant reproduce that ^^
EDIT: okay cant reproduce that error often, but i had that happening three of four times now.
maybe this helps.
when the machine is powered and 24v is on. but not latched.
i start linuxcnc and when it not restarted yet. it restarts as soon as i turn an axis spindle.
maybe i have to edit this post again when i cant reproduce that ^^
EDIT: okay cant reproduce that error often, but i had that happening three of four times now.
Last edit: 10 Jul 2020 22:18 by Onkelmat.
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10 Jul 2020 23:27 #174281
by Onkelmat
Replied by Onkelmat on topic Retrofitting Maho MH600E 1989 - Meas 5i25 & 7i77
Since i don´t know where to start looking for my error I´ll quit for today and start looking again tomorrow.
My plan as to write down the function of each relay in the e-cabinet and power it on one by one with everything wired to the cards as usual.
Maybe i can locate the error that way.
If that doesn´t help I´ll try to stay calm and not to scream.
My plan as to write down the function of each relay in the e-cabinet and power it on one by one with everything wired to the cards as usual.
Maybe i can locate the error that way.
If that doesn´t help I´ll try to stay calm and not to scream.
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- Mike_Eitel
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11 Jul 2020 10:00 #174290
by Mike_Eitel
Replied by Mike_Eitel on topic Retrofitting Maho MH600E 1989 - Meas 5i25 & 7i77
If your restarts are somehow happen as soon as your "moves" :
Could be an earthing problem. Either machine to ground, pc to ground or both to ground. Could be that your maho generate emv spikes, and/or your pc's psu got more sensible. I would try to run linuxcnc in an sim application, so you are sure nothing can move the machine. Then try to generate signals that make movements. I would expect that you can reset your pc that way.
Beside i would think over my earthing concept. Be sure that low resistance cabling canalise current between "shields" and not over signal cables. And have a look if you can implement additional filter in the power sourcing of your pc. Maybe add ferites in cables.
Could be an earthing problem. Either machine to ground, pc to ground or both to ground. Could be that your maho generate emv spikes, and/or your pc's psu got more sensible. I would try to run linuxcnc in an sim application, so you are sure nothing can move the machine. Then try to generate signals that make movements. I would expect that you can reset your pc that way.
Beside i would think over my earthing concept. Be sure that low resistance cabling canalise current between "shields" and not over signal cables. And have a look if you can implement additional filter in the power sourcing of your pc. Maybe add ferites in cables.
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11 Jul 2020 14:32 - 11 Jul 2020 14:44 #174304
by Aciera
So just to get this clear. Your PC only crashes if you use your own config? If so clearly something is happening when the cards and their outputs are initialized during the startup process.
So posting your config would not be bad idea. Also you might want to pipe the terminal output of the startup of linuxcnc into a file and post that. That way we might get an idea what is being started just before the PC crashes.
[edit]
As Tomy has already suggested there is probably something going on with how you wired the thing up that feeds back to the PC
[/edit]
Personally I would create a new hal file and copy in sections from the current hal file you are having problems with while testing if and when the restart problem comes back.
Proper grounding techniques are indeed very important (as I had to learn the hard way many years ago) and without a clearly structured approach how you want to go forward you could be poking around in the dark for a very long time.
So I strongly suggest to create an new hal file and reassemble it step by step with frequent testing. Then once the rebooting happens again you can take a step back and analyze what is happening.
Replied by Aciera on topic Retrofitting Maho MH600E 1989 - Meas 5i25 & 7i77
Then I've run my linuxcnc configuration I'm using all the time and ou of 10 tries it crashes like 7 times right on splashscreen.
Then I've tried the axis_mm configuration by right click on linuxcnc and choosing one of the axis basic settings.
I could start linuxcnc 20 times without restart.
Then ive tried my config again and got instant restart.
I'm sure my ini or config have a problem.
I'll try to post both of them
So just to get this clear. Your PC only crashes if you use your own config? If so clearly something is happening when the cards and their outputs are initialized during the startup process.
So posting your config would not be bad idea. Also you might want to pipe the terminal output of the startup of linuxcnc into a file and post that. That way we might get an idea what is being started just before the PC crashes.
[edit]
As Tomy has already suggested there is probably something going on with how you wired the thing up that feeds back to the PC
[/edit]
Personally I would create a new hal file and copy in sections from the current hal file you are having problems with while testing if and when the restart problem comes back.
Proper grounding techniques are indeed very important (as I had to learn the hard way many years ago) and without a clearly structured approach how you want to go forward you could be poking around in the dark for a very long time.
So I strongly suggest to create an new hal file and reassemble it step by step with frequent testing. Then once the rebooting happens again you can take a step back and analyze what is happening.
Last edit: 11 Jul 2020 14:44 by Aciera.
The following user(s) said Thank You: tommylight
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12 Jul 2020 09:49 #174370
by Onkelmat
Replied by Onkelmat on topic Retrofitting Maho MH600E 1989 - Meas 5i25 & 7i77
Also you might want to pipe the terminal output of the startup of linuxcnc into a file and post that. That way we might get an idea what is being started just before the PC crashes.
How ?
Sometimes the PC crashes without Linux started, but that´s rather rare. Like 1 out of 100.
I´ll try another pc today.
I´ve grounded to one common ground:
- Maho
- Indramat 3trm2
- 7i77
- 7i84
- 5V 2A supply
- PC PSU
I´m very excited to see if the other PC shuts down too..
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