Feature Request

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06 Sep 2020 00:25 #180877 by phillc54
Replied by phillc54 on topic Feature Request

snowgoer540 wrote: Had some time with the conversational today... Two things:

1. It outputs M5 to end the cut, I know this works in single tool machines, but when someone has other tools, should it be M5 $0?

Of course it should... :blush:


2. It might be nice if it had the option to pick your material. I know you can just pick the material when you run it, but once I closed everything down and loaded "shape.ngc" and forgot to pick the new material :blush:, so I thought I'd ask...

I have thought about this and never came up with a good way to implement it.

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06 Sep 2020 00:34 - 06 Sep 2020 00:34 #180878 by snowgoer540
Replied by snowgoer540 on topic Feature Request

phillc54 wrote: I have thought about this and never came up with a good way to implement it.


Well, what if you just had a drop down that mimic'd the one in the run panel/tab? Then if you picked from an existing material type, it would populate the g-code with that information. If you dont choose a material type, it can default to using whatever is displayed in the run panel/tab when you cut (exactly how it is right now). Choosing the material type and having it use the actual kerf width, rather than the other method may prove useful if other features ever work their way into the Conversational. I know features are limited when cutter comp is running.

Also, I forgot to mention today during a cut interruption the Z Axis bounce at the top (offset problem) was present. I am honestly not sure what I did to cause it, I couldnt duplicate it, but I'm not sure the offset stuff is completely sorted out?

Speculating, but it may have been after I got a Joint Following Error and had to turn the machine back "on" with the orange button. I honestly cant recall as I did a lot of messing around this evening. Clicking the orange power button off and then on and re-homing solved it, and it didnt seem to come back.
Last edit: 06 Sep 2020 00:34 by snowgoer540.

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06 Sep 2020 15:25 #181020 by snowgoer540
Replied by snowgoer540 on topic Feature Request
Ok, so the Z axis offset wiggle/spring effect is definitely back. I apologize in advance for the lengthy post. Just trying to be thorough :)

This relates to the Joint following error stuff that @Mud was having. I didn't want to muddy that post. I believe there might be some ini settings that aren't helping anything, but the Joint 3 error is related because it's highlighting a problem with the Z axis offset/probing stuffs. Even Peter seemed surprised he was only getting this on the Z axis joint. Similarly, I've slowed my Z velocity and Accelerations WAY down, and previously followed Peter's advice to increase my StepGen numbers. I think my settings are fine at this point.

I want to be clear that I only get the Z axis following error on my Z axis, and only when retracting from a cut.

I noticed that when the torch retracts at the M5 $0, it changes pitches. It's like it's executing two different Z movements, at two different speeds. Sometimes it is more pronounced than others (when it does it the loudest, it always results in the Z wiggle). I did notice that I can't get this to happen below 92.2 inches per minute. (I did a lot of probing to figure that out :laugh:). My default setup speed is 150ipm. The machine is actually capable of much faster, so hopefully we get this ironed out. I attached a zip of my config folder so you can see the axis' settings.

Steps to reproduce:

1. Turn the setup speed greater than 92.2ipm (my default was 150ipm)
2. Run the G-Code posted below
3. Jog Z down then up to see if you got the Z wiggle
4. Run the G-Code posted below
5. Jog Z down and then up, you should have the Z axis spring/wiggle now

One time I had an error where it would go to the probe height and sit. It would not progress past that until I shut down Linuxcnc and restarted it. So far, I could not get it to reproduce the error, that only seemed to happen once and I couldn't figure out what I did to get it to mess up.

After a bunch of testing, I did get a few Joint 3 follow errors. Since I'm running Torch Disabled at this time, I can see exactly where it stopped. Without knowing exactly what is going on inside the code, it seems like after a cut it rapids to the probe height, and then rapids to the top of the Z travel (or wherever you had it parked when you started). Is that correct? It routinely gives the Joint Follow error near the probe height, on torch retract, which if what I suspect about how the Z movements execute is true, maybe it's because there's something weird going on with the offsets/movement speeds and it's asking the joint to make some really tiny movements too quickly that are causing it to error out?

If you listen closely to the youtube video below, when the torch retracts at the end of the cut, you can hear that for a super brief period, there is a portion of that Z movement that speeds up and sounds way faster than the rest. As I said, this is more pronounced the times that result in ending with the Z Wiggle.


G20 G64P0.004 G40 G49 G80 G90 G92.1 G94 G97 (preamble)
f#<_hal[plasmac.cut-feed-rate]>

(wizard circle)
M67 E3 Q60.0 (reduce feed rate to 60%)
g0 x-0.353553 y-0.603553
m3 $0 s1
g3 x-0.353553 y-0.353553 i-0.125000 j0.125000
g2 x-0.353553 y-0.353553 i0.353553 j0.353553
g3 x-0.603553 y-0.353553 i-0.125000 j-0.125000
m5 $0
M68 E3 Q0 (reset feed rate to 100%)

G20 G64P0.004 G40 G49 G80 G90 G92.1 G94 G97 (postamble)
m2

Hopefully that helps, happy to gather more data if needed. Thanks!
Attachments:

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06 Sep 2020 15:52 #181028 by Mud
Replied by Mud on topic Feature Request

snowgoer540 wrote: ...
This relates to the Joint following error stuff that @Mud was having. I didn't want to muddy that post.
...


Fill yer boots, I'm doing a fair job of muddying it myself... ;)

Would it make sense to be able to assign the torch/scribe for each operation when using conversational? Since MDI is single line and you can't edit in the NC window (right?) that opens up what you can do without leaving AXIS.

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06 Sep 2020 20:49 #181063 by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic Feature Request
What happens if you reduce your Z axis acceleration in your ini file?
My immediate thought is that its something to do with the external offsets unwinding that generates a following error.

External offsets is designed so you allocate a ratio of max velocity and max acceleration to External offsets. With plasma we cheat because jogging and THC are mutually exclusive. We double the settings in the ini file but set the External offset ratio to 0.5. This means we have max velocity and max acceleration available for both jogging and THC. sneakyyy!

I carefully tuned my Z axis for max velocity and max acelleration with a dial indicator under the torch tip. But then it all fell apart in the real world and I had to reduce the numbers to prevent step loss. So my point is, its not always as you think! Acelleration is the biggest factor relating to step loss/following errors than velocity.

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06 Sep 2020 21:52 - 06 Sep 2020 21:56 #181066 by snowgoer540
Replied by snowgoer540 on topic Feature Request

rodw wrote: What happens if you reduce your Z axis acceleration in your ini file?


Please see above post (#181020):

snowgoer540 wrote: Similarly, I've slowed my Z velocity and Accelerations WAY down, and previously followed Peter's advice to increase my StepGen numbers. I think my settings are fine at this point.

Last edit: 06 Sep 2020 21:56 by snowgoer540.

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06 Sep 2020 23:15 #181068 by phillc54
Replied by phillc54 on topic Feature Request

snowgoer540 wrote:

G20 G64P0.004 G40 G49 G80 G90 G92.1 G94 G97 (preamble)
f#<_hal[plasmac.cut-feed-rate]>

(wizard circle)
M67 E3 Q60.0 (reduce feed rate to 60%)
g0 x-0.353553 y-0.603553
m3 $0 s1
g3 x-0.353553 y-0.353553 i-0.125000 j0.125000
g2 x-0.353553 y-0.353553 i0.353553 j0.353553
g3 x-0.603553 y-0.353553 i-0.125000 j-0.125000
m5 $0
M68 E3 Q0 (reset feed rate to 100%)

G20 G64P0.004 G40 G49 G80 G90 G92.1 G94 G97 (postamble)
m2


Is there any change if you put a G0 Xn Yn movement between the M68... line and the G20... line

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06 Sep 2020 23:45 #181074 by snowgoer540
Replied by snowgoer540 on topic Feature Request

phillc54 wrote: Is there any change if you put a G0 Xn Yn movement between the M68... line and the G20... line


As long as you mean:
G20 G64P0.004 G40 G49 G80 G90 G92.1 G94 G97 (preamble)
f#<_hal[plasmac.cut-feed-rate]>

(wizard circle)
M67 E3 Q60.0 (reduce feed rate to 60%)
g0 x-0.353553 y-0.603553
m3 $0 s1
g3 x-0.353553 y-0.353553 i-0.125000 j0.125000
g2 x-0.353553 y-0.353553 i0.353553 j0.353553
g3 x-0.603553 y-0.353553 i-0.125000 j-0.125000
m5 $0
M68 E3 Q0 (reset feed rate to 100%)
G0 X0 Y0
G20 G64P0.004 G40 G49 G80 G90 G92.1 G94 G97 (postamble)
m2

Then no, there is no change:

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06 Sep 2020 23:57 #181075 by phillc54
Replied by phillc54 on topic Feature Request
Yep, that is what I meant. I'll have a look see when I get back home. In the meantime can you post your config.

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07 Sep 2020 00:14 - 07 Sep 2020 00:15 #181076 by snowgoer540
Replied by snowgoer540 on topic Feature Request

phillc54 wrote: Yep, that is what I meant. I'll have a look see when I get back home. In the meantime can you post your config.


In the spirit of anticipating the needs of the lead developer, I posted a .zip of my config folder a few posts up: Here, for your convenience

:) Thanks Phill
Last edit: 07 Sep 2020 00:15 by snowgoer540.

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